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Pro Tip - Playtesting for Charlotte
Last post 04-28-2009, 8:07 AM by BlackBloc. 28 replies.
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04-21-2009, 1:21 PM |
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Siggie
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Joined on 01-04-2009
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Pro Tip - Playtesting for Charlotte
So, new pro tips from Ben Stoll.
My only response?
"Unique means 'one of a kind.' Something cannot be 'very unique.'"-President Josiah "Jed" Bartlett
Cheers!
-teh Sig
Christopher "Siggie teh Sig" Nugent Find me on facebook with liiamealone @ yahoo dot com email me at teh_Sig @yahoo dot com
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04-21-2009, 2:49 PM |
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DClown
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Joined on 10-01-2007
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Re: Pro Tip - Playtesting for Charlotte
a white horse with a particular black spotting pattern is unique
a white unicorn with a particular black spotting pattern could be considered very unique.
ver⋅y
–adverb
| 1. |
in a high degree; extremely; exceedingly: A giant is very tall. |
| 2. |
(used as an intensive emphasizing superlatives or stressing identity or oppositeness): the very best thing; in the very same place as before. |
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04-21-2009, 3:03 PM |
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Siggie
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Re: Pro Tip - Playtesting for Charlotte
1811756:
a white horse with a particular black spotting pattern is unique
a white unicorn with a particular black spotting pattern could be considered very unique.
ver⋅y
–adverb
| 1. |
in a high degree; extremely; exceedingly: A giant is very tall. |
| 2. |
(used as an intensive emphasizing superlatives or stressing identity or oppositeness): the very best thing; in the very same place as before. |
Sorry, DClown, you can try to rise to Ben's defense with this, but Bartlett quotes trump all.
"Because bite me, that's why."-President Josiah "Jeb" Bartlett
And if you're wondering, "Unique" picked up a third, modifiable meaning when it acquired popular status through usage in the 19th century. While many contest that something is either one of a kind or it isn't, others would argue that unique can have the third definition, meaning "unusual," which can then be modified by words like "somewhat" or "very." Depending on the usage of the word in context, either side could be right. Still, any excuse to quote Bartlett is worth the effort to type it.
Cheers!
-teh Sig
Christopher "Siggie teh Sig" Nugent Find me on facebook with liiamealone @ yahoo dot com email me at teh_Sig @yahoo dot com
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04-21-2009, 4:18 PM |
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fizyx
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Joined on 02-18-2009
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Re: Pro Tip - Playtesting for Charlotte
English aside, I rather enjoy the article. Very brief, but to the point. Some of it was regurgitated from a previous article, but expanded a little bit to make it new. Plus, he really does give a good tip:
Play what you know.
I made that mistake once at a BG, changing at the last minute based on a perception of what would be playing. What's worse, losing a game because you were the rock to someone's paper, or losing a game cause the scissors didn't work right?
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04-21-2009, 5:16 PM |
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JerryDamage01
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Re: Pro Tip - Playtesting for Charlotte
2519921:English aside, I rather enjoy the article. Very brief, but to the point. Some of it was regurgitated from a previous article, but expanded a little bit to make it new. Plus, he really does give a good tip:
Play what you know.
I made that mistake once at a BG, changing at the last minute based on a perception of what would be playing. What's worse, losing a game because you were the rock to someone's paper, or losing a game cause the scissors didn't work right?
There are some players that can change bands at the last minute but overall I think if you play something you know, you're usually better off in the long run. I've learned this lesson a few times in the other minis games I've played. All in all, if you pick a band and practice it and stick with it, you're always a step ahead of the person that netdecked.
 "It's like Michael Jordan going to the YMCA to play basketball." WOW Minis Judge Level 1, Tourament Organizer, Player Management Level 1
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04-21-2009, 5:47 PM |
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Siggie
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Re: Pro Tip - Playtesting for Charlotte
2412136:
All in all, if you pick a band and practice it and stick with it, you're always a step ahead of the person that netdecked.
The flaw in that statement is that there are players who only netdeck, and with the decks they get from other people, they read up as much as they can on it, then play the ever living hell out of it. Now, most netdeckers don't do this level of homework, or so I'd imagine given how few potential netdeckers have found success so far, but the possibility remains.
Here's a tip for the virtuosos, if your friend is the highly specialed one-team-only gamer, you can play the crap out of the gauntlet for him or her and get a lot of playtime with the most popular teams. This is one of the things I do for the players in my area, so while I'm truly specialized in one band for each faction, I could potentially switch at the last minute or from one day to the next if I discovered the field wasnt to the liking of my chosen party. Switching like this is a gamble, because sometimes, playing what you know means playing something someone else has tested the matchup against into the ground.
I did a LOT of testing of AMA, with it and against it, after Corle walked away from DMF:SF with first place, because any time a team wins a major event, netdeckers experience some kind of knee-jerk reacton that forces them to playtest it the crap out of it, and I felt I needed to be experienced in the match up when I was still planning on competing at Charlotte.
Now that I'm just going to judge minis for three days, I've taken a step back from competative planning and looked again at the Charlotte/Koln map. Except for the players who locally tried out the scenarios from the Deluxe starter to keep injecting new blood into their local environment, few played on this map, before the announcement, so it's hard to agree that playing what you know will play out well for players. Ah, but since the clarifications on the scenario and the results can in from Koln, I do imagine lots of players, maybe as many as a couple hundred, have been testing the crap out of this scenario, trying to find the right Ace suited to Slicing the expected meta.
Ah, but, here's the one thing I expect for the Charlotte meta, it's going to be a crap shoot. So many viable teams fall into question given the way this scenario plays, and those projected VPs they always planned for in previous matches change dynamics when presented with this map and its form of scoring.
Ah well, In the end, I hope everyone gets just about the perfect amound of kills to cap ratios they're looking for this weekend and that the best team played by the best pilot walks away with the champion title of this DMF.
Cheers!
-teh Sig
Christopher "Siggie teh Sig" Nugent Find me on facebook with liiamealone @ yahoo dot com email me at teh_Sig @yahoo dot com
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04-21-2009, 9:22 PM |
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DClown
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Re: Pro Tip - Playtesting for Charlotte
All in all, if you pick a band and practice it and stick with it, you're always a step ahead of the person that netdecked.
I mostly disagree. If you only specialize in a handfull of bands, you never get the opportunity to see the board from the other persons perspective. This isn't chess where you both have the same pieces, and you are learning offense and defense with the same pieces. You need to know the ins and outs of every piece in order to maximize your wins. You need to be intimately familiar with what your opponent is going to do and what you need to do to stop it. If you don't have the right game plan going into the match then you are way behind. The best way to know what that game plan is to have actively run the archtype the band falls into. You need to start asking yourself at the beginning of the match 'what kind of band is this that I'm facing, and what do I need to do to crush it'. You almost need to know just as much about their band as you do your own. I've found its generally harder to see brilliant offensive tactical plays when you are attacking then it is to assess the defensive cracks in a given position when you are defending. I almost feeled overwhelmed with the multitude of options on offense, whereas I can almost instantly quantify what my defense is lacking.
If you lack the time to invest in truely understanding the tops bands out there however then yeah, playing what you know is generally better then picking up something that somebody tells you is good ( even if it is good ).
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04-21-2009, 11:27 PM |
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Corle
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Joined on 04-22-2008
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Re: Pro Tip - Playtesting for Charlotte
1811756:
I've found its generally harder to see brilliant offensive tactical plays when you are attacking then it is to assess the defensive cracks in a given position when you are defending.
Hmm, my radar just blipped. Apparently somebody isn't flying low.
-c
http://myworld.ebay.com/corle2/
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04-22-2009, 12:30 AM |
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CorayThan
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Portland, OR
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Re: Pro Tip - Playtesting for Charlotte
2465615: 1811756:
a white horse with a particular black spotting pattern is unique
a white unicorn with a particular black spotting pattern could be considered very unique.
ver⋅y
–adverb
| 1. |
in a high degree; extremely; exceedingly: A giant is very tall. |
| 2. |
(used as an intensive emphasizing superlatives or stressing identity or oppositeness): the very best thing; in the very same place as before. |
Sorry, DClown, you can try to rise to Ben's defense with this, but Bartlett quotes trump all.
"Because bite me, that's why."-President Josiah "Jeb" Bartlett
And if you're wondering, "Unique" picked up a third, modifiable meaning when it acquired popular status through usage in the 19th century. While many contest that something is either one of a kind or it isn't, others would argue that unique can have the third definition, meaning "unusual," which can then be modified by words like "somewhat" or "very." Depending on the usage of the word in context, either side could be right. Still, any excuse to quote Bartlett is worth the effort to type it.
Cheers!
-teh Sig
Or you could be using "very unique" for hyperbole. A unicorn with that particular black spotting is "very unique," because it's not just "one of a kind," there are actually none of its kind. Although that wouldn't help Ben's grammar much, so oh well!
lamepoon ... lamepoon! lamepoon! lamepoon!
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04-22-2009, 9:33 AM |
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JerryDamage01
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Re: Pro Tip - Playtesting for Charlotte
2465615: 2412136:
All in all, if you pick a band and practice it and stick with it, you're always a step ahead of the person that netdecked.
The flaw in that statement is that there are players who only netdeck, and with the decks they get from other people, they read up as much as they can on it, then play the ever living hell out of it. Now, most netdeckers don't do this level of homework, or so I'd imagine given how few potential netdeckers have found success so far, but the possibility remains.
Cheers!
-teh Sig
I agree that there are players who only netdeck. Let me clarify on what I meant by netdeck. I didn't mean players who get their team from the net and then practice it over and over and over again. To me that would make them in the category of people who know their band very well. By net deckers I meant people who are going to play and pick what they think will do well based only on what the band is. They don't properly prepare for the event by playtesting it against the meta or percieved meta. In the case where you know your band very very well against someone who just picked up something they saw do well on the net, I'd like to think you have a leg up on them. As long as it's not the rock to your scissors, I would give the advantage to the person who knows their band better.
 "It's like Michael Jordan going to the YMCA to play basketball." WOW Minis Judge Level 1, Tourament Organizer, Player Management Level 1
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04-22-2009, 7:23 PM |
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Siggie
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Joined on 01-04-2009
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Off-central Florida
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Re: Pro Tip - Playtesting for Charlotte
2412136: 2465615: 2412136:
All in all, if you pick a band and practice it and stick with it, you're always a step ahead of the person that netdecked.
The flaw in that statement is that there are players who only netdeck, and with the decks they get from other people, they read up as much as they can on it, then play the ever living hell out of it. Now, most netdeckers don't do this level of homework, or so I'd imagine given how few potential netdeckers have found success so far, but the possibility remains.
Cheers!
-teh Sig
I agree that there are players who only netdeck. Let me clarify on what I meant by netdeck. I didn't mean players who get their team from the net and then practice it over and over and over again. To me that would make them in the category of people who know their band very well. By net deckers I meant people who are going to play and pick what they think will do well based only on what the band is. They don't properly prepare for the event by playtesting it against the meta or percieved meta. In the case where you know your band very very well against someone who just picked up something they saw do well on the net, I'd like to think you have a leg up on them. As long as it's not the rock to your scissors, I would give the advantage to the person who knows their band better.
Ah, and here's why I'll agree with your clarified statement. I've lost twice with E3 since I finalized the ABCs. Since then, I changed 2, dropping CL for Mana Pot and dropping one EC for SP and remain undefeated in constructed. Consider it boasted if you don't accept my credibility, but such a statement is made in agreement with the idea that he who knows his band best knows the odds are with him. (or her). The point I conceded in the face of a lot of evidence is that E3 isn't as good as I said it was because it was good, rather I thought it was so damn good because I kept winning with it. Turns out i don't suck at this game as much as many might hope. Playing Wavecaller/Helwen to second in 4 rounds of swiss was grueling but worth the 6 hour round trip, since I won the door prize red bearron.
Cheers!
-teh Sig
Christopher "Siggie teh Sig" Nugent Find me on facebook with liiamealone @ yahoo dot com email me at teh_Sig @yahoo dot com
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04-23-2009, 12:56 PM |
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Phoolish
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Austin, TX
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Re: Pro Tip - Playtesting for Charlotte
Anyone else wish they got a dollar every time we had to hear about the Wavecaller/Helwen performance?
Phoolish <Jive Horde> <Low Rollers>
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04-23-2009, 1:33 PM |
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Siggie
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Re: Pro Tip - Playtesting for Charlotte
1698754:Anyone else wish they got a dollar every time we had to hear about the Wavecaller/Helwen performance?
Suck it up. I'll cite my performance until I out-perform it, because I'm tired of people saying I'm full of theories and lack confirmed experience.
Christopher "Siggie teh Sig" Nugent Find me on facebook with liiamealone @ yahoo dot com email me at teh_Sig @yahoo dot com
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04-23-2009, 3:41 PM |
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NosFurOught2
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Re: Pro Tip - Playtesting for Charlotte
Siggie:
Suck it up. I'll cite my performance until I out-perform it, because
I'm tired of people saying I'm full of theories and lack confirmed
experience.
They're just jealous. How is it only Siggie can get into an heated debate over a statement like this. Siggie:So, new pro tips from Ben Stoll.
My only response?
"Unique means 'one of a kind.' Something cannot be 'very unique.'"-President Josiah "Jed" Bartlett
Cheers!
-teh Sig
Character ListsCMG WIKI
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04-23-2009, 5:00 PM |
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Phoolish
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Re: Pro Tip - Playtesting for Charlotte
They will continue to say it until you back your words up by playing and placing in a tournament of some merit. Maybe you do not like it, but it is most likely the truth.
You continually talk about the lack of BGs in your area. You talk about the horrible state of the Florida educational system. Then you expect people to be impressed that you took second in a one box sealed tournament against who knows what level of competition. The Spectral Safaris were run in a number of ways and some people won based on as little as 3 games against tcg exclusive players and online players who don't know a u base from a suppository.
Might as well brag about being the best Laser Quest player in Sunrise, the Yatzee champion of your block, or the grand pooh bah of whatever other obscure activity you can think of.
For all any of us know maybe you did play that duo masterfully againts skilled players. Seriously though. We get it already. You think you are awesome. You really want us to think so too. Show it to be true and you won't have to keep repeating it.
Phoolish <Jive Horde> <Low Rollers>
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