Hi All,

Here's some further clarification of what happens between combat proposal and conclusion:

* You can propose a combat any time you have priority in your action phase and the chain is empty. This puts a proposal effect on the chain.

* You then get priority to add to the chain (which you rarely will). If you pass, other players get their chance to add to the chain. This is their chance to disrupt your proposal by exhausting your proposed attacker, or playing something like Frost Nova.

* If the proposal is no longer legal as it resolves, nothing happens and you get priority in your action phase. If the proposal is still legal as it resolves, a combat step starts and your attacker exhausts. This does not use the chain.

*** The first of two priority windows opens - the "attacker window". Any effects that triggered when the attacker attacked go on the chain, then you get priority. Non-instant cards (like Fireball) can't be played during a combat step. A priority window closes after all players pass in succession.

* After the attacker window closes, the defending player has the chance to exhaust a ready protector to make it the proposed defender. Then the proposed defender becomes the defender. None of this uses the chain.

*** The second of two priority windows opens - the "defender window". Any effects that triggered when the defender protected or defended go on the chain, then you get priority. Non-instant cards (like Fireball) can't be played during a combat step. A priority window closes after all players pass in succession.

* After the defender window closes, the combat concludes. During conclusion, no player can put anything on the chain. Only if both attacker and defender are still in play do they deal combat damage to each other. As usual, armor can be exhausted to prevent damage to heroes. None of this uses the chain. Finally, the combat step ends, and you get priority in your action phase.

Thanks,
PR

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paul_ross@upperdeck.com
UDE TCG Rules

So, there's three chances during the combat steps that you can play abilities or effects? And the only step you can respond to is initiating combat? And then again right after that when attackers effects enter the chain (and if no effects exist, the defender still gets a chance to play abilities/effects, correct?) and when defenders defend or protect?

Just trying to be crystal clear regarding when responses are allowed and when they aren't. :)

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-Joneleth

Daiden Quezul
70 Paladin, Burning Blade

1114141:

So, there's three chances during the combat steps that you can play abilities or effects? And the only step you can respond to is initiating combat? And then again right after that when attackers effects enter the chain (and if no effects exist, the defender still gets a chance to play abilities/effects, correct?) and when defenders defend or protect?

Just trying to be crystal clear regarding when responses are allowed and when they aren't. :)

Just some tweaks to terminology so we're all on the same page. Especially when discussing the more technical aspects of the rules, it's important for us all to be speaking the same language :)

* There's only one step for each successful combat proposal, called the "combat step". Within a combat step, there are two (not three) windows to add to the chain, the attacker window and the defender window. All players get the chance to add to the chain while either window is open (as outlined in my last point below).

* To "respond" is to add to the chain before the most recent card/effect resolves. So you can respond to a card/effect, but you can't "respond to a step". You can certainly respond to a proposal effect. That's a good time to play something like Frost Nova. Note, however, that this is before the combat step starts.

* Once a combat step starts, both priority windows always open, regardless of whether any effects trigger on attacking, protecting, or defending.

* All priority windows in the game generally work the same way: First, any waiting triggered effects get added to the chain, then the turn player gets priority. If that player adds to the chain, they get priority again. Once they stop adding to the chain, they pass, and the next player clockwise gets priority to add to the chain. If that player adds to the chain, they get priority again, and so on. Once all players pass in succession, the most recent card/effect on the chain resolves and the turn player gets priority. If that player adds to the chain, they get priority again, and so on. Once all players pass in succession on an empty chain, the priority window closes.

Thanks,
PR

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paul_ross@upperdeck.com
UDE TCG Rules

1120110:

1114141:

So, there's three chances during the combat steps that you can play abilities or effects? And the only step you can respond to is initiating combat? And then again right after that when attackers effects enter the chain (and if no effects exist, the defender still gets a chance to play abilities/effects, correct?) and when defenders defend or protect?

Just trying to be crystal clear regarding when responses are allowed and when they aren't. :)

Just some tweaks to terminology so we're all on the same page. Especially when discussing the more technical aspects of the rules, it's important for us all to be speaking the same language :)

* There's only one step for each successful combat proposal, called the "combat step". Within a combat step, there are two (not three) windows to add to the chain, the attacker window and the defender window. All players get the chance to add to the chain while either window is open (as outlined in my last point below).

* To "respond" is to add to the chain before the most recent card/effect resolves. So you can respond to a card/effect, but you can't "respond to a step". You can certainly respond to a proposal effect. That's a good time to play something like Frost Nova. Note, however, that this is before the combat step starts.

* Once a combat step starts, both priority windows always open, regardless of whether any effects trigger on attacking, protecting, or defending.

* All priority windows in the game generally work the same way: First, any waiting triggered effects get added to the chain, then the turn player gets priority. If that player adds to the chain, they get priority again. Once they stop adding to the chain, they pass, and the next player clockwise gets priority to add to the chain. If that player adds to the chain, they get priority again, and so on. Once all players pass in succession, the most recent card/effect on the chain resolves and the turn player gets priority. If that player adds to the chain, they get priority again, and so on. Once all players pass in succession on an empty chain, the priority window closes.

Thanks,
PR

Wow, that's a lot of good stuff there.  Thanks for going through all the steps again! I think I got it now. :) Hopefully with the terminology and everything.

I do have one last question (I swear!) and it relates to priority.  This may be an obvious question that I should know the answer to, but what exactly is the advantage of having priority in the chain? Even if you don't have priority, whatever you put into the chain still resolves in the usual LIFO manner.  I guess I'm just not seeing the advantage of being able to add a card "first" since they all resolve eventually. :)

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-Joneleth

Daiden Quezul
70 Paladin, Burning Blade

I do have one last question (I swear!) and it relates to priority.  This may be an obvious question that I should know the answer to, but what exactly is the advantage of having priority in the chain? Even if you don't have priority, whatever you put into the chain still resolves in the usual LIFO manner.  I guess I'm just not seeing the advantage of being able to add a card "first" since they all resolve eventually. :)

Someone has to have first, wether it is an advantage or not... well, that would depend on the situation.

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Chad Daniel
www.StarCityWoW.com
Strategy, Articles, Forums, and More!
My Articles

863356:

I do have one last question (I swear!) and it relates to priority.  This may be an obvious question that I should know the answer to, but what exactly is the advantage of having priority in the chain? Even if you don't have priority, whatever you put into the chain still resolves in the usual LIFO manner.  I guess I'm just not seeing the advantage of being able to add a card "first" since they all resolve eventually. :)

Someone has to have first, wether it is an advantage or not... well, that would depend on the situation.

Care to elaborate? I was sort of reaching for examples. ;)

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-Joneleth

Daiden Quezul
70 Paladin, Burning Blade

Well, the game has to have rules to detrimine who has to act first.  Without knowing the full card pull, I would not be able to give you good WoW examples, so I will just make up some cards.

Lets say Player A has a card that says, "Target ally gets +5 attack this turn" and Player B has a card that says, "Prevent all combat damage this turn"

Now assume Player A swings at Player Bs hero with a 1/1.  What is the likelyhood Player B will want to play his card for just a 1/1.  He wants to wait and see if Player A will do anything first. If the game did not dictate who had go first in a given scenerio, each player would be waiting to see what the other would do before decieding on his corse of action.

So, in WoW, the attacking player has priority first, so he must make the decision to play his "+5 ATK" card and then Player B can make the decision to play the "No combat damge this turn" card. In the last window Paul spoke of, if Player A passes and does not use his attack pump, and then Player B does not play anything either, Player A does not get the chance to go back and play something.  He has to play before knowing what Player B might do.

So, it really is not an advantage one way or the other, but just a system in place to break what would otherwise be a stalemate. In the example I gave, it does favor the defender, but there are cases where it would be better to be the first person to choose to play something or not.  Like I said, until I know a larger card pool, it would be difficult to give you an exact scenerio.  Or maybe it is becuase it is almost 3am and I am getting tired ;-/

Chad

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Chad Daniel
www.StarCityWoW.com
Strategy, Articles, Forums, and More!
My Articles

863356:

Well, the game has to have rules to detrimine who has to act first.  Without knowing the full card pull, I would not be able to give you good WoW examples, so I will just make up some cards.

Lets say Player A has a card that says, "Target ally gets +5 attack this turn" and Player B has a card that says, "Prevent all combat damage this turn"

Now assume Player A swings at Player Bs hero with a 1/1.  What is the likelyhood Player B will want to play his card for just a 1/1.  He wants to wait and see if Player A will do anything first. If the game did not dictate who had go first in a given scenerio, each player would be waiting to see what the other would do before decieding on his corse of action.

So, in WoW, the attacking player has priority first, so he must make the decision to play his "+5 ATK" card and then Player B can make the decision to play the "No combat damge this turn" card. In the last window Paul spoke of, if Player A passes and does not use his attack pump, and then Player B does not play anything either, Player A does not get the chance to go back and play something.  He has to play before knowing what Player B might do.

So, it really is not an advantage one way or the other, but just a system in place to break what would otherwise be a stalemate. In the example I gave, it does favor the defender, but there are cases where it would be better to be the first person to choose to play something or not.  Like I said, until I know a larger card pool, it would be difficult to give you an exact scenerio.  Or maybe it is becuase it is almost 3am and I am getting tired ;-/

Chad

Makes sense to me.  I guess I was just figuring that if Player A wanted to play his +5 ATK card, he only has so many opportunities (or windows) to do so which means he'd eventually play it if that was his intention.  Seems like the "priority" naturally goes to the attacker anyway, so it's only logical to make it into a rule. :)

Thanks for the explaination!

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-Joneleth

Daiden Quezul
70 Paladin, Burning Blade

1120110:

Hi All,

Here's some further clarification of what happens between combat proposal and conclusion:

Can I strike with a weapon in both priority windows or does the attacker always have to strike in the attacker window and the defender in the defender window?

One important consequence if the attacker may strike in the defender window is that the attacker may wait for the opponent to name a protector before deciding which weapon to strike with.

Does striking with a weapon put an attack increase effect on the chain or does the attack increase happen without the chain?

Related to the previous question: Can I add a "striking with weapon" to the chain after my opponent added an effect to the chain? For instance let's say I'm attacking and during the attacker window my opponent plays an instant that would destroy my weapon. Can I still strike with my weapon, putting the attack increase on the chain before his destroy effect resolves?

When do I exhaust my weapon and when does the legality check " weapon is ready and therefore can be used for striking" happen? Is this a single inseparable unit or does this work similar to propose and attack? In other words when I say that I strike with my weapon can my opponent play a card that will exhaust it and thereby prevent me from striking (because the exhaust effect resolves first and after that my weapon is not legal for striking anymore?

1114935:

1120110:

Hi All,

Here's some further clarification of what happens between combat proposal and conclusion:

Can I strike with a weapon in both priority windows or does the attacker always have to strike in the attacker window and the defender in the defender window?

One important consequence if the attacker may strike in the defender window is that the attacker may wait for the opponent to name a protector before deciding which weapon to strike with.

Does striking with a weapon put an attack increase effect on the chain or does the attack increase happen without the chain?

Related to the previous question: Can I add a "striking with weapon" to the chain after my opponent added an effect to the chain? For instance let's say I'm attacking and during the attacker window my opponent plays an instant that would destroy my weapon. Can I still strike with my weapon, putting the attack increase on the chain before his destroy effect resolves?

When do I exhaust my weapon and when does the legality check " weapon is ready and therefore can be used for striking" happen? Is this a single inseparable unit or does this work similar to propose and attack? In other words when I say that I strike with my weapon can my opponent play a card that will exhaust it and thereby prevent me from striking (because the exhaust effect resolves first and after that my weapon is not legal for striking anymore?

According to the rulebook (Pg. 21), you can strike with a weapon after the defender starts defending. So if they can play an ability that destroys your weapon prior to that, then you're out of luck.

Striking with a weapons has one requirement(being ready) and two costs (strike cost and exhausting). When you take any action in the game you meet all requirements and pay all costs. Once you have done that, the effects should go onto the chain as normal. Declaring you are strking with weapon and paying it's costs are pretty much inseperable and don't allow an opponent to respond inbetween them. Proposing a combat is different since it is an actual step of combat.

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No quote for you!

Kinda thinking out loud here on a few of these things :)

- Combat proposal is not part of the combat step so you can play non-instant abilities in response to the combat proposal effect?

- You exhaust attackers during the attacker window and defenders during the defender window? Or do they both exhaust after the defender window closes?

- When proposing an attack do you have to declare you are striking with a weapon and pay the cost during the proposal step and then exhaust it during the attacker step? Or can I declare im striking with a weapon during the attacker/defender window and pay the cost and exhaust it then? Looking for clarification on when you can declare, pay and exhaust weapons during combat

- About priority. When I add something to the chain and then pass, if my opponent then adds something to the chain do I get a chance to respond after he passes? Basically does it require all players to pass without adding to the chain for the chain to begin resolving?

Sorry if these sound stupid questions, just trying to get my head around this :) Thanks

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.:: Advantage is nothing if your hero's dead ::.

1129366:

Combat proposal is not part of the combat step so you can play non-instant abilities in response to the combat proposal effect?

No. Only instants may be played and payment powers used in response to anything.

You exhaust attackers during the attacker window and defenders during the defender window? Or do they both exhaust after the defender window closes?

The proposed attacker exhausts and becomes the attacker just before the attacker window opens. The proposed defender doesn't exhaust at all.

When proposing an attack do you have to declare you are striking with a weapon and pay the cost during the proposal step and then exhaust it during the attacker step? Or can I declare im striking with a weapon during the attacker/defender window and pay the cost and exhaust it then? Looking for clarification on when you can declare, pay and exhaust weapons during combat

In fact, that's the only time you may strike with a weapon. Section 13.B of the rulebook: "After the defender starts defending, you can strike with a weapon..." I.e., you strike during the defender window. Pay the strike cost when you strike -- that's part of putting the effect on the chain. The ATK bonus lasts until the end of the combat.

About priority. When I add something to the chain and then pass, if my opponent then adds something to the chain do I get a chance to respond after he passes? Basically does it require all players to pass without adding to the chain for the chain to begin resolving?

I believe that's correct. Every time a card or effect is placed on the chain, that starts a new round of responses. Once there are no more responses to the last card or effect in the chain, it is resolved, you move to the next one down, and everyone gets to respond to that one (again).

Thanks for clearing that lot up

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Certification In:

WoW Judge LvL 1
Yu-Gi-Oh Judge LvL 1
Tournament Organisation
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Demo Team

.:: Advantage is nothing if your hero's dead ::.

hi fellas,

just to clarify, because i see only mention of weapons in the examples of originating attacks..... does this go for abilities as well? for example:

1. opponent plays fireball and targets my hero
2. i play gouge to exhaust his hero , and therefore make him waste fireball


is this scenario correct ? this is the way we've been playing , i want to know if we've been playing correctly


peeze


o  O  

No, this isn't correct. Fireball does not require your opponent's hero to be ready. Regardless if his hero is ready or exhuasted, fireball will attach and deal damage.

Fireball will only be interrupted on resolution, is if the target is no longer valid (eg: it is no longer a  hero/ally, etc.)

Fireball: Attach to target hero or ally, and your hero deals 4 fire damage to it.
Ongoing: At the start of your turn, your hero deals 1 fire damage to attached character.

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Edwin T.