2233726:

I was just wondering, which Raid deck is the most fun? I'd like to know all of your inputs, because I thought of buying one, just don't know which.

In a bit I am gonna post a little information on each one. They are all fun, but if you have money for only one- get the Black Temple Raid Deck. That raid deck can be modified easily to provide an extreme challenge.

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___________________________________
Raids Spring 2009 Semester: Approx 30
Raids Fall 2009 Semester: Approx 25
Raider, Constructed Player, Casual Player

2415247:

2233726:

I was just wondering, which Raid deck is the most fun? I'd like to know all of your inputs, because I thought of buying one, just don't know which.

In a bit I am gonna post a little information on each one. They are all fun, but if you have money for only one- get the Black Temple Raid Deck. That raid deck can be modified easily to provide an extreme challenge.

It's also worth taking this with a grain of salt; if your playgroup will typically cap out at 4 or 5 players interested in playing a raid, you might want to consider the other raids instead. Black Temple is very, very difficult to beat (even in its "easiest" mode) with fewer than 5 people. To do it with 3 or 4 requires fine-tuned Black Temple destroying machines of decks.

Onyxia, Magtheridon, and Molten Core on the other hand are more manageable for a raiding party of three to deal with.

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Onyxia's Lair

Bosses: 1 (3 forms)
Difficulty: Easy
Health: 100 total
Our Record: 4 players (novices)
Personal Playtest Record: 3 players (expert)
Recommended Players: 3-5


Introduction
Onyxia's Lair was the first raid deck released for the WoW TCG. Structure wise, the deck is very simple; Onyxia attacks each turn for a certain amount of damage. By turn 10, Onyxia can begin destroying heroes if they take too long to down stage 1. At turn 20 on stage 3, she can annihiliate the entire raid.


Strengths
Onyxia is able to buff herself with cards such as Tooth and Claw. Onyxia has an assortment of ally, ability and equipment removal. Cards that should be immediately interrupted are Burninate, Shattering Scales and Bellowing Roar. Trash Mob cleanup is necessary in this deck because Onyxia will spawn whelps to assist her damage output.


Weaknesses
Onyxia, like many other raid bosses cannot heal themselves. To make up for this they have a large amount of health. Onyxia can also be easily kept in control by a rogue (continually exhausting Onyxia) and can be easily kept in line with a good tank (Paladin or Warrior).


Looking For Something More?
After players can clear Onyxia easily, try modifying the raid deck. Sample:


Event Deck: No Modifications


Abilities (60)
3x Bellowing Roar
3x Burninate
3x Crush
3x Deep Breath
3x Devour
3x Draconic Rage
3x Engulfing Flames
3x Flame Breath
3x Head Slam
3x Home Lair Advantage
3x How Fortuitous!
3x Knock Away
3x Lava Cracks
3x Learn Your Place, Mortal!
3x Meaningless Exertion
3x Shattering Scales
3x Tail Swipe
3x Thrash
3x Tooth and Claw
3x Trample

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___________________________________
Raids Spring 2009 Semester: Approx 30
Raids Fall 2009 Semester: Approx 25
Raider, Constructed Player, Casual Player

Molten Core
Bosses: 10
Difficulty: Medium-Hard
Health: 151 total
Our Record: 6 players (novices)
Personal Playtest Record: 3 players (expert)
Recommended Players: 3-6


Bosses
Boss 1- Lucifron
Boss 2- Magmadar
Boss 3- Gehennas
Boss 4- Garr
Boss 5- Baron Geddon
Boss 6- Shazzrah
Boss 7- Sulfuron Harbinger
Boss 8- Golemagg the Incinerator
Boss 9- Majordomo Executus
Boss 10- Ragnaros



Introduction
Molten Core was the second raid release for the WoW tcg. Structure wise, MC (Molten Core) expands upon the previous raid deck and sets a new template. Bosses would come into play with minions from the minion deck and would specifically bring in "unique" minions according to the specific boss. MC features a shortened version and the full length version. In the short version, the raid boss randomly selects three runes out of the eight with the raid deck, and plays them in order of their number, not revealing which bosses would come into play (Lucifron is always played first, though). Raiders, after those three bosses would go on to face Majordomo Executs and Ragnaros. In the full course mode, the entire raid is played.


Strengths
Any lengthy battle will be a stretch for any raid group. When a boss comes into play, he comes into play with his associated rune card, which may have a special ability that gives the raid trouble. If the raid group does not regulate the trash mobs (minions that come into play as a result of a boss dying) then the game typically ends around Boss 4 or Boss 5. Minions feature ally exhaustion, damage, removal, buffing (of each other) and spawning. Unchecked mobs will kill the group. Cards to watch out for (and interrupt): Flame Burst (destroys resources), Hotter than Goo, Volcanic Lair.


Weaknesses
Save Sulfuron Harbinger's allies that can heal him, no MC raid boss can heal themselves. A tank can properly tank each boss, but trash removal is essential against MC.


Looking For Something More?
If raiders are complaining that Molten Core is too easy, try this modification:

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___________________________________
Raids Spring 2009 Semester: Approx 30
Raids Fall 2009 Semester: Approx 25
Raider, Constructed Player, Casual Player

Magtheridon's Lair
Bosses: 1 (2 forms)
Health: 200 total
Difficulty: Easy-Medium
Our Record: 5 players (novices)
Personal Playtest Record: [(Mag 72% health, not downed) 3 players (expert)]
Recommended Players: 4-5


Introduction
Magtheridon's Lair was the third raid deck released for the World of Warcraft TCG. Magtheridon's Lair features Magtheridon and his cubes, which if not handled properly will insure raid destruction. Warlocks welcome here.


Strengths:
When Magtheridon gains blood- he becomes more powerful. He has many annoying abilities that will incur damage or prevent players from exhausting manticron cubes. 5 cubes in all, Magtheridon's Lair will deal massive damage to all parties if all the cubes arn't taken and exhausted on a character. This will keep the tank busy- so modifications to many of the decks versus Magtheridon will be necessary. An ally based tank deck is ideal. A spare slot should also feature a Warlock rush that can remove on the side to take care of the Channelers.


Weaknesses
Rush decks, a mage and a warlock (maybe another DPS) will take Magtheridon down. To my knowledge he doesn't have massive ally destruction. Magtheridon cannot heal himself, but he can be a royal pain. This will be a mage, warlock and tank battle.

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___________________________________
Raids Spring 2009 Semester: Approx 30
Raids Fall 2009 Semester: Approx 25
Raider, Constructed Player, Casual Player

Black Temple
Health: 160 total
Difficulty: Hard-Impossible
Our Record: Not Taken Down
Recommended Players: 5+


Bosses:
Boss 1: High Warlord Naj'entus
Boss 2: Supremus
Boss 3: Shade of Akama
Boss 4: Teron Gorefiend
Boss 5: Gurtogg Bloodboil
Boss 6: Shrine of Lost Souls
            Essence of Suffering
            Essence of Desire
            Essence of Anger
Boss 7: Mother Shahraz
Boss 8: The Illidari Council
Boss 9: The Betrayer


Introduction
Black Temple is the 4th release for raid decks for the WoW tcg. BT returns to the structure setup Molten Core had- there are 9 bosses here.


Strengths
This raid deck is mean. It features direct resource to damage abilities, prevention, interruption, etc. One card that should always be interrupted: Aura of Desire. If the Boss player activates it and discards 5 cards, he wipes the field of all allies, abilities and equipment. Fel Rage allows the boss player to draw wildly, and if the ability deck runs out, the ability graveyard is reshuffled.


The raid deck can be modified from the current WoW TCG pool. "Traitor Hero Required" cards may be added or taken from the raid deck to make it practically impossible to beat. If Kael'thas or Lady Vashj appear, they need to be taken out immediately.


If players make it to the final boss, they will have five turns to kill Illidan before he begins blasting all players with 20 damage per turn (according to his events, which cannot be interrupted). Once an event enters play, it cannot be interacted with by the raiding players (no spell supression!). It is an all out DPS race to kill The Betrayer, who has 50 health. One exhausting power the betrayer has is he can heal himself for 15 damage. To slow Illidan down, give him a good Thud or keep him exhausted.


Weaknesses
Black Temple can be breezed through quickly if you know what you are doing. Like many raid bosses, except The Betrayer, no boss can heal himself.


Looking for More?
Try this: Sample:


Ability Deck (32)
4x Aura of Desire
4x Aura of Suffering
4x Tidal Burst
4x Crushing Shadows
4x Prismatic Shield
4x Fel Rage
4x Parasitic Shadowfiend
4x Tainted Earth


Event Deck (14)
Event 5
Event 5
Event 3
Event 3
Event 12
Event 12
Event 19
Event 19
Event 15
Event 15
Event 23
Event 23
Event 2
Event 2

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___________________________________
Raids Spring 2009 Semester: Approx 30
Raids Fall 2009 Semester: Approx 25
Raider, Constructed Player, Casual Player

Naxxramas
Health: unknown
Difficulty: unknown
Our Record: Not Taken Down
Recommended Players: unknown
Date Posted: 6/19/2009


Bosses:
Boss 1: Anub'Rekhan
Boss 2: Grand Widow Faerlina
Boss 3: Maexxna
Boss 4: Noth the Plaguebringer
Boss 5: Heigan the Unclean
Boss 6: Loatheb
Boss 7: Instructor Razuvious
Boss 8: Gothik the Harvester
Boss 9: The Four Horsemen
Boss 10: Patchwerk
Boss 11: Grobbulus
Boss 12: Gluth
Boss 13: Thaddius
Boss 14: Sapphiron
Boss 15: Kel'Thuzad (final)



Introduction:
Naxxramas will be the 5th release of the WoW TCG raid decks. It is estimated to be released in September 2009.


Suspiscions
Naxxramas may allow UDE and Blizzard to usher in Northrend and WOTLK content to the trading card game, now that Death Knights have been released. It will be a 15 boss raid deck, if the developers follow the trend they have been so far- sticking true to the MMO raids. If so, Naxxramas will be a raid of endurance and patience as it contains more bosses than Molten Core or Black Temple. It will be made to withstand either block 3 sets (Drums of War, Blood of Gladiators, Fields of Honor) or block 4 sets (unknown).

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___________________________________
Raids Spring 2009 Semester: Approx 30
Raids Fall 2009 Semester: Approx 25
Raider, Constructed Player, Casual Player

Your guide to the raid decks is a very valuable contribution to this thread, thank you.


Although, I'd be curious about your modifications to make MC harder. My playgroup has accepted Onyxia as the 3 person, any decks raid. . .  Black temple as the hard, 5-person-or-don't-bother deck. . . magtheridon as the whatever, it'll be fast deck. . .


But molten core has no real defined role as a raid to play in a certain situation, and as such, making it more difficult is the only thing I can think of.

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Most epic moment ever in a raid I've encountered.

I'm running Black Temple, my players are going into Illidan (IIRC that's who it was, maybe it was the fight before him)  with full health and a decent amount of stuff on the table. 

First Event:  Players cannot draw cards, at the start of your turn they draw 1.
Second Event:  Players discard their hand and draw a new one....

I just about fell out of my seat.

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-Fuz-

1764079:

Most epic moment ever in a raid I've encountered.

I'm running Black Temple, my players are going into Illidan (IIRC that's who it was, maybe it was the fight before him)  with full health and a decent amount of stuff on the table. 

First Event:  Players cannot draw cards, at the start of your turn they draw 1.
Second Event:  Players discard their hand and draw a new one....

I just about fell out of my seat.

I was playing my raid mage and brain freeze'd ragnaros as he was drawing his hand, then locked him down for the four turns he was out with frost funnels, fizzlefreeze flip, and a frostbolt, while interrupting his cards as he drew them.

He literally got to do nothing, which had to suck a lot as far as fun for the raid boss, but damn if it wasn't a potent lockdown.

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I would think that, when the boss player begins drawing cards from the Ragnaros deck that:


a) players have no priority because nothing has been paid for in terms of cost

b) it is an integral part of the raid, like events, and cannot be interrupted or affected


Frost funnel would be very effective, but Touch of Ice would do better. An interruption may only be made when a card is played and you can legally (by the interrupting card) interrupt it, thus, you cannot interrupt cards as he draws them because this (drawing cards) does not add an effect to the chain.

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___________________________________
Raids Spring 2009 Semester: Approx 30
Raids Fall 2009 Semester: Approx 25
Raider, Constructed Player, Casual Player

We implemented a rule that it was mandatory that the boss can draw his new hand.  As anything else made it retarded...No point in fighting the last boss if he can't do anything...doesn't FEEL right...

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___________________________________
I like PIE......Discuss!

So we were raiding BT the other day and the end was kind of funny. I was BT and I was facing 4 players(mixed factions, not teched, and their main healer was technically a Warlock with Blood Knights, lol) A couple of Blue Mages(1 arcance, 1 traitor0, Traitor red warlock( I should have offed him first), and Ogrimmar I believe.

So we progressed through the game at a decent pace, some good ebb and flow. The Shrine of Lost souls bosses were the toughest for them. I think I managed to off the Arcane Mage and Ogrimmar. They blow through the council and head into Illidan(the first time we have done so I believe, and I flipped the they can't draw and get one card on my turn card event(major lifesaver for me).

 Both traitors have now turned into Illidan, the warlock player managed to find Blood Knights a few turns earlier to keep them alive for a while longer, but truthfully I'm in trouble. On my third Illidan turn I managed to destoy the Mage Illidan. By the time I get to my next turn, I'm at 39 damage and the Warlock Illidan is pretty healthy.

So I flip the Betrayer event, and it's the one that says "Choose a number greater than zero. Destroy all cards with that cost or greater" or something to that effect. I reread it a couple times to make sure it will do what I think it's going to do. I choose my number and say "Guess who has a cost?"

Moral of the story. Don't try to use a clone to try to unseat the Betrayer.

Then we played MC against 5 (Varanis, Black Ice, Red Priest, Traitor Warlock, Arcane mage combo) Not really fun let me tell you. I turn it around during Baron Geddon, and could have wipe them mostly out had I worked a little harded.  Geddon dies and it's all down hill. Truthfully though, older raids versus newer cards is usually a horrible time for the raid deck, but it was a good time still just to be raiding.

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No quote for you!

I have been play testing all of the raid decks to get them ready for our campus. I have cleared Onyxia's Lair on Hard Mode (3 players) with little difficulty. The tank died at the very end, but the DPS did enough to kill Onyxia (Rogue, Warrior, Druid). The Warrior and Druid did minimal to no DPS. Modified, Onyxia should be cake walk as a 3 man raid, there is simply no excuse.


Molten Core gets a bit more hairy. A Rogue, Paladin and Druid combo got to Garr but did not have trash removal. Like I said, no trash removal means YOU LOSE against Molten Core. Garr's little 8 minion team slapped the crap out of the tank, killing him in two turns, despite the tank laying down a Thud! on Garr. Cold Front from a Mage, or Vor'nas flip would have been nice. In the past, raiders used water elemental to good effect. The More, The Scarrier would have worked perfectly here. But alas, Garr made quick work of the raiders. I am not sure if Molten Core can be three manned but I will continue testing and reporting. If I tune the raid decks, it will force our raiding players to build their decks thoroughly and keep coming back for more.


Although intuitively obvious, one deck built to participate in a raid will behave differently in PVP, team battles, etc. Some cards work better in raids than others, outside of raids some cards are completely pointless. It is up to the player to tune a particular deck to fight against a particular boss. For example, Magtheridon is an ally intensive battle- put more allies into your deck to exhaust cubes and DPS.

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___________________________________
Raids Spring 2009 Semester: Approx 30
Raids Fall 2009 Semester: Approx 25
Raider, Constructed Player, Casual Player

Common Raid Terminology

AOE- Area of Effect. This is a strategy where a player's deck aims to destroy a massive number of allies during a raid, with cards such as Rain of Shadow, Blizzard or the effect of Water Elemental.

DOT- Damage Over Time. Pertaining usually to Warlocks, Rogues and Mages also have some DOTs as well as one warrior DOT. These abilities tick damage every turn continuously because they are attached to an opposing ally or hero.

DPS- Damage Per Second. Coined after the MMO term, DPS deals damage to the boss and keeps the damage going. Rogues are very good at DPS as well as Shamans and Druids.

Healer- A player who uses a deck to heal damage from other players. "Raid" healers heal damage from all players while Single healers focus primarily on the boss. A healer may fulfill both rolls.

HOT- Heal Over Time. This is a heal unique to Druids and has been double spec'd. The antithesis of a DOT, a HOT ticks and heals damage every time it is the turn of the healer.

Interrupt- Stopping a boss from attacking (with cards like Thud!) or the card game term which means countering a card on the chain.

Mob- "Monster or Beast" or "Mobile Object". Mobs can sometimes be of the same race, but always stick together in a group. They can cause massive damage. ).

Protector- An ally (or hero given the keyword) who can switch the proposed defender of a combat.

Tank- A player who protects or controls attacks in order to take the damage from the boss or creature dealing the most damage. Tanks can be off spec'd to heal themselves, but usually require a healer. Tanks take the brunt of the damage, may prevent it with armor, and may either use abilities or allys to tank.

Tempo- the speed of the game. A 1 v 1 game seems to go by fast. In a raid, 4 turns in a rotation is slower than a 1 v 1 game. The more people you add to a raid, the slower the game plays out, and the more time necessary.

Trash- Referring to Mobs that pop up usually because a boss died. If you leave them alone, they WILL come and haunt you. Trash almost always requires cleaning.

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___________________________________
Raids Spring 2009 Semester: Approx 30
Raids Fall 2009 Semester: Approx 25
Raider, Constructed Player, Casual Player