Blessing of might does it... and it's pally!  Mason's Fraternity ring.  Aura of Fanatacism. 

 

If you attacked, then played AR, you would have Double ATK.  You would have That amout of attack every combat that turn if you could find a way to ready your hero.

 

 

So is the general consensus that If I play Avenging Wrath first, then swing with my 2 attack weapon, I will have 2 attack for that combat?

Yes.

---

======================
Sweet Zombie Uther!
It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

 Don't these rules imply otherwise though?

710.1 A card enters play as it comes into the play zone from some other zone. A token also enters play as it’s put into the play zone. A player puts a card into play by following the instructions listed below in order. No player receives priority while these instructions are being followed.

710.1c That card’s remaining continuous powers generate continuous modifiers, and applicable continuous modifiers (including its own) take it into account as a card in play.

714.3 A definite modifier is created by a definite power (704.1b) or a resolving link (709). It usually has a specified duration. If no duration is specified, such a modifier lasts until the game ends.

714.3d A definite modifier exists independently from its source. Removing or modifying that source won’t impact that modifier in any way.

714.3e A definite modifier affecting multiple cards doesn’t flag any cards as it’s created. Such a modifier continuously checks what cards it applies to, so it can affect cards that weren’t affected as it was created, and it can stop affecting cards that were affected as it was created.

The entire rules are of course, important, but I bolded the most relevant parts.

---

Rules Knowledge - World of Warcraft: Level 1

1509211:

Blessing of might does it... and it's pally!  Mason's Fraternity ring.  Aura of Fanatacism. 

 

If you attacked, then played AR, you would have Double ATK.  You would have That amout of attack every combat that turn if you could find a way to ready your hero.

 

 

Actually no, which make Avenging Wrath even more worthless

Blessing of Freedom has a definite power which creates a definite modifier, and as such the modifier gains a new time stamp each time the hero would attack meaning only the first instance before the AW is played would be included in the doubling.

714.3a    Some definite modifiers have a “while” condition as well as a duration. Such a modifier applies only while that condition is true within its duration. That condition is not a duration.

718.2e     A continuous modifier from a card’s definite power (704.1b) created “as” an event happened is the time that event happened.

I'm now with simon. This card sucks.

---

No quote for you!

1700912:

 The entire rules are of course, important, but I bolded the most relevant parts.

But you neglected to quote the most important rule when dealing with multiple continuous modifiers.

718.1        Continuous modifiers are applied in timestamp order unless one depends (719) on another. Replacement modifiers are an exception and follow 716.1. One-shot modifiers have no timestamp and are applied as they are created, after taking into account all applicable continuous modifiers.

---

No quote for you!

UDE- was this card intended to work with weapon strikes throughout that turn or only prior to playing it?

If so, something needs to be re-worded.

People keep referring to this rule:
104.3: Some continuous modifiers say to “double” a numerical value. Such a modifier continuously doubles that value, incorporating any other modifiers to that value with earlier timestamps.

And I really think people are reading it wrong. "Incorporating" means, to contain or include as part of a whole. So, that rule to me is simply saying "You also add all values from before this was played". Not "You add ONLY values from before this was played".

The rule states it "continuously doubles that value". So if you played AW, you would be (for that turn) always doubling the ATK of your Hero via PPP.

So, that turn, you constantly double the ATK value of your Hero, you ALSO (not only) include all values added before it was played.

That how the rule reads, it seems rather clear that it works for more than "one shot".

It would be nice through if we could get a ruling from UDE.

Houjix:

Actually no, which make Avenging Wrath even more worthless

Blessing of Freedom has a definite power which creates a definite modifier, and as such the modifier gains a new time stamp each time the hero would attack meaning only the first instance before the AW is played would be included in the doubling.

714.3a    Some definite modifiers have a “while” condition as well as a duration. Such a modifier applies only while that condition is true within its duration. That condition is not a duration.

718.2e     A continuous modifier from a card’s definite power (704.1b) created “as” an event happened is the time that event happened.

I'm now with simon. This card sucks.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but Blessing of Might doesn't seem to have any kind of duration such as 'this turn'.  The example given in the Comp Rules specifically uses a card that has both a 'while' condition and a duration.

---

Simon Key

Yugioh! TCG Rules Knowledge Level 3
WoW TCG Rules Knowledge Level 2
WoW Minis Rules Knowledge Level 1
Player Management Level 3
Tournament Organizer Level 1

996018:

718.1        Continuous modifiers are applied in timestamp order unless one depends (719) on another. Replacement modifiers are an exception and follow 716.1. One-shot modifiers have no timestamp and are applied as they are created, after taking into account all applicable continuous modifiers.

Interpreted this way, this rule seems to contradict 714.3d and 714.3e

but I can see both interpretations.  One makes AW crap, one makes it an ok card.

---

Rules Knowledge - World of Warcraft: Level 1

People keep referring to this rule:
104.3: Some continuous modifiers say to “double” a numerical value. Such a modifier continuously doubles that value, incorporating any other modifiers to that value with earlier timestamps.

And I really think people are reading it wrong. "Incorporating" means, to contain or include as part of a whole. So, that rule to me is simply saying "You also add all values from before this was played". Not "You add ONLY values from before this was played".

I'm not quite sure how you can read it as that.  This rule is saying that when you double a numerical value, in this case your hero's ATK which has an unmodified value of zero, you "include as a part of a whole" all other modifiers that have an earlier timestamp.

All continous modifiers that have an earlier timestamp would apply anyway without this rule.  If it read as you are describing it, then there would be no need for this rule as 718.1(Continous modifiers are applied in timestamp order) would completely handle that and there would be no need to state it.  Instead it would have to read something like "incorporating any other modifiers to that value regardless of timestamps."

---

======================
Sweet Zombie Uther!
It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

Yeah, I'm gonna start getting pretty confused if Blessing of Might is not an indefinite continous power.

Attach to target hero or ally.
Ongoing: Attached character has +1 ATK while attacking.

704. Continuous powers

704.1       Any power that is not a payment, reward, or triggered power is a continuous power. Continuous powers generate modifiers without using the chain, and are either definite or indefinite.

704.1a    Each of a card’s indefinite powers generates a continuous modifier that doesn’t have a specified duration and lasts as long as that card is in the appropriate zone and has that power. Additional costs or restrictions on a card or power are indefinite powers that function in all zones from which that card can be played or that power can be used.

704.1b    A definite power generates a modifier “as” an event happens. Such modifiers can be one-shot or continuous. For modifiers generated as a turn starts, see 501.1a. For modifiers generated as a card enters play, see 710.1.

Or is it a definite power because "while attacking" constitutes "as an event happens" and has no duration even though it doesn't use "as" as highlighted in the rules.

Thats because the timestamp portion is not the important part of the rule, its an addition or clarification to the rule so that it works correctly.

If the rule just said: "Some continuous modifiers say to “double” a numerical value. Such a modifier continuously doubles that value."   You could say that it only doubles only the value it sees upon resolution.  So if you used your weapons strike cost, in response, your opponent mills you with some random effect, in response you complete a quest, draw an AW and play it.

In this case, AW would give you nothing, because it is not checking for an earlier timestamped strike cost effect which may still be on the chain.

As well, "Such a modifier continuously doubles that value." seems like clear cut evidence alone that the value is continuously modified (that turn) regardless of any timestamped effects that may happen afterwards.  The value being continuously doubled is the ATK OF your Hero, not the ATK given TO your Hero.  Therefore, during that turn, whatever your Hero's ATK is, it is doubled.

Hi All,

This thread is spiralling out of control in a couple of different directions, so to rein it in:

* First of all, Houjix got it right all the way back in post 4, Aragorn concurred in post 6 while clearing up some confusion about replacement modifiers, and BlueRider was the first to correctly answer the specific question about Rak hijinks in post 9. Since then, there have been a variety of posts erroneously thinking the rules worked differently, or wishing that they did, but those three elder statesmen have continued to present a unified (and correct) front on the subject. So I respectfully disagree with the statement that there have been "3 pages and no clear answer".

* The original confusion seems to stem from the mistaken idea that "doubling" modifiers are always applied AFTER all other modifiers (or at least additive ones) even though (a) there's no such rule and (b) there IS a rule (the oft-quoted 718.1) that specifically contradicts that notion.

* If this misconception were true, then the sequence of events would seem to be: hero attacks, weapon strikes (+4), AW does its doubling (8), then that combat concludes and the hero's ATK goes back to zero as the strike modifier ends (because double zero is zero - I haven't seen that actually stated anywhere but that's what happens :)) Then Rak does his thing, hero attacks again, weapon strikes again, but rather than simply add 4, it's somehow inserted under/before the doubling modifier so that the hero ends up at 8 again. All I can say is that's NOT how it works, and the reason it doesn't work that way is rule 718.1.

* Finally, and most recently, there has been some terminology-related confusion:

996018:

1509211:

Blessing of might does it... and it's pally!  Mason's Fraternity ring.  Aura of Fanatacism. 

If you attacked, then played AR, you would have Double ATK.  You would have That amout of attack every combat that turn if you could find a way to ready your hero.

Actually no, which make Avenging Wrath even more worthless

Blessing of Freedom has a definite power which creates a definite modifier, and as such the modifier gains a new time stamp each time the hero would attack meaning only the first instance before the AW is played would be included in the doubling.

Blessing of Might, 2, Paladin (Azeroth-62U)
Instant Ability—Retribution Blessing
Attach to target hero or ally. <p> Ongoing: Attached character has +1 ATK while attacking.

This reply is incorrect. Blessing of Might has an indefinite power that generates an indefinite modifier. Definite powers generate a modifier "as" an event happens (e.g. Greatsword of Horrid Dreams), not "while" a condition is true.

As a result, as long as Blessing of Might resolved before Avenging Wrath this turn, your hero would have +2 while attacking in every combat this turn.

Thanks for all contributions!
PR

---

paul_ross@upperdeck.com
UDE TCG Rules

This thread makes my head spin :/

---

Have/Wants list

Panther City Players (Team PCP)