The whole part about "earlier timestamps" should eliminate all confusion.

Section 104.3 tells us how to deal with the specific term "doubling" as it relates to values. Section 714.3e doesn't truly apply, as like I said before, Avenging Wrath effects one card and that's the hero. It has no effect on the other modifiers.

---

No quote for you!

If it said it incorporated only earlier timestamps, then I'd be more apt to accept that reasoning, Houjix.

My interpretation of that rule tells me that it will apply any earlier modifiers first and then double them.
That rule does not tell me that it only cares about earlier modifiers.

---

Simon Key

Yugioh! TCG Rules Knowledge Level 3
WoW TCG Rules Knowledge Level 2
WoW Minis Rules Knowledge Level 1
Player Management Level 3
Tournament Organizer Level 1

The wording on the card, the implied intention of the card, and most of the rules seem to imply this:

"This turn, whenever your Hero has +ATK, double that value." (Thats probably how they should have written the card, if that is indeed its desired effect).

I agree that the "Doubling" rules don't seem to fit this card, as it is not specifically counting and then doubling. It seems like a continuous effect and should (for that turn) work as an ongoing ability.

IE: If you swong, played Rak, and swong again, you'd get the benefit of the card twice.

Squabbles:

IE: If you swong, played Rak, and swong again, you'd get the benefit of the card twice.

That is how I understand the card should work.  But according to quite a few others, and apparently the Comp Rules, that isn't how it does work.

If you attacked and then after the strike from your weapon resolves, played "AR", you'd get the double for this combat.  That's all well and good, and everybody agrees on this.
Then, if you played Rak and attacked again, you would not receive any benefit from "AR" because the new strike is ignored.  This what I disagree with as it makes the card completely useless, IMHO.  If it was meant to only apply to one instance, then it doesn't need to have 'this turn' in its text.

---

Simon Key

Yugioh! TCG Rules Knowledge Level 3
WoW TCG Rules Knowledge Level 2
WoW Minis Rules Knowledge Level 1
Player Management Level 3
Tournament Organizer Level 1

966558:

If it said it incorporated only earlier timestamps, then I'd be more apt to accept that reasoning, Houjix.

My interpretation of that rule tells me that it will apply any earlier modifiers first and then double them.
That rule does not tell me that it only cares about earlier modifiers.

Huh? Not quite sure what you are getting at?

The doubling effect is a continuous modifier itself and as such is applied the same way the rest are, in timestamp order(718.1).  Regardless of whether they last the whole turn or not, that's still how it must be applied.

Edit: Oh, I see. You disagree fundamentally with how the doubling effect is treated. Like I said, I don't disagree that iT seems a little counterintuitive, but the rules, as they stand, are all we have to go by for the time being.

---

No quote for you!

Seems like you guys ironed that one out pretty good and everyone agrees how the card was "probably meant" to work. It would have been much better if they had just said double the attack of your weapons this turn than saying the hero.  The weapons attack won't normally change (other than temporary/conditional modifiers).

How about an official errata UDE? hmm?

---

Still working on it

Panther City Players - PCP

J & P Trade Post

104.3 Some continuous modifiers say to “double” a numerical value. Such a modifier continuously doubles that value, incorporating any other modifiers to that value with earlier timestamps.

I believe the bolded text is a clarification, not a qualifier.  It is saying "If there are any effects on the value in question, you count those when you double the value."  It is not saying "you only double the value and any effects that were added before the doubling occured."  There is no before, as it is a continuous affect.  The bolded text merely states that the effect retroactively doubles the value and continues to double the value untill the doubling effect expires, in the case of AW, the end of the turn.

For instance, If you add a Blessing of Might to your hero, then play Avenging Wrath, your hero has 2 attack while attacking this turn.  If you then swing with a Sonic Spear, your hero has 10 attack for that combat.  If you then add another Blessing of Might, your hero has an additional 2 attack while attacking.  However, as per the rules example, if you play BOM, then play Avenging Wrath, then your opponent destroys the Blessing, you are back 0 attack.

---

Rules Knowledge - World of Warcraft: Level 1

3 pages and no clear answer, and the favored answer is very counter-intuitive.

I don't think it's too much to ask for a UDE clarification here.

---

Have/Wants list

Panther City Players (Team PCP)

How is "continuous modifiers are applied in timestamp order" not clear?

---

======================
Sweet Zombie Uther!
It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

1549518:

Seems like you guys ironed that one out pretty good and everyone agrees how the card was "probably meant" to work. It would have been much better if they had just said double the attack of your weapons this turn than saying the hero.  The weapons attack won't normally change (other than temporary/conditional modifiers).

Regardless of the consensus on how people think the card is intended to work, it can only work one way within the current rules framework. Unless you change that framework, it will work how we have been describing.

 

---

No quote for you!

It's not clear because why "double your heroes attack this _TURN_" when there is no way to have + attack for the entire turn? The _only_ card in the game that this would work with is Cruelty whish is warrior restricted.

The way the card works is counter intuitive. If it was intended to be a one shot effect, it should have said combat.

Rulings like this are bad for the game. I hate having to sit down and explain to a new player that no, he did not win because of "timestamps". The player would have played diffrently, or perhaps a difrent deck all together if it wasn't for bad phrasing on the card, and I now look like a "rules lawyer" screwing the new kid over.

---

Have/Wants list

Panther City Players (Team PCP)

ralin664:

It's not clear because why "double your heroes attack this _TURN_" when there is no way to have + attack for the entire turn? The _only_ card in the game that this would work with is Cruelty whish is warrior restricted.

The way the card works is counter intuitive. If it was intended to be a one shot effect, it should have said combat.

But, here's the deal...

If you had a continuous modifier from before (doesn't matter when) that gives your Hero +2 ATK at all times, then, when you play AR, your Hero will have a minimum of 4 ATK for the entire turn.  That's all the 'this turn' means..  And at the end of the turn, your Hero's ATK will return to only 2.

So, your Hero's ATK was indeed doubled for 'this turn' in that scenario.

---

Simon Key

Yugioh! TCG Rules Knowledge Level 3
WoW TCG Rules Knowledge Level 2
WoW Minis Rules Knowledge Level 1
Player Management Level 3
Tournament Organizer Level 1

Right... but nothing does that. Case of "future wording" I guess?

---

Have/Wants list

Panther City Players (Team PCP)

... what ARE you talking about

Seal of crusader gives your hero +2 attack if you pop it, as an example

As does crusade and Aura of Fanaticism and Ring of the Shadow Deeps and Blessing of Might and the list goes on.

---

Everything I tell you is a lie.

I *love* Jank.

Have/Want

See you all at Mulgore's Realms Championships!

So is the general consensus that If I play Avenging Wrath first, then swing with my 2 attack weapon, I will have 2 attack for that combat?

---

Rules Knowledge - World of Warcraft: Level 1