I'm wrong.

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Simon Key

Yugioh! TCG Rules Knowledge Level 3
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WoW Minis Rules Knowledge Level 1
Player Management Level 3
Tournament Organizer Level 1

If my hero had 3 Blessing of Mights on and attacked an opposing hero.  During the Attack window I play avenging wrath, bringing my attack to 6.  But my opponent destroys a blessing of might in the defend window.  How much attack would my hero have at combat conclusion?

4. A continues modifier that its indefenite always checks the game state. That modifer from that blessing of might will go away and avenging wraith will recheck itself instantly out side of ppp and everything to become 4.

 

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WOWTCG Level 2 Rules Judge
Player Management Level 2
T.O.

I'm wrong.

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Simon Key

Yugioh! TCG Rules Knowledge Level 3
WoW TCG Rules Knowledge Level 2
WoW Minis Rules Knowledge Level 1
Player Management Level 3
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966558:

Ok, you folks seem to be jumbling things up and people are posting w/o quoting who they are resonding to...

The modifier for Avenging Wrath lasts for the entire turn.

That means that every time you attack with your hero during the turn Avenging Wrath's modifier is active, if your Hero has any kind of +ATK value it will be doubled.

So, for the Obsidian Edge Blade scenario, it would be 8 every time you were able to attack with your Hero and strike with the weapon in an individual combat.

 

Not according to  104.3       Some continuous modifiers say to “double” a numerical value. Such a modifier continuously doubles that value, incorporating any other modifiers to that value with earlier timestamps.

The modifier, in this case, the swinging of a weapon, would need to be added before playing avenging wrath. That is the way I understand the rule.

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Rules Knowledge - World of Warcraft: Level 1

Oh, rereading that rule I can see what you are saying skey, If it continuously doubles the attack, the earlier timestaps could mean anything that's happened before this point in the game/turn/phase whatever.  

I hate rules.

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Rules Knowledge - World of Warcraft: Level 1

996018:

1464297:

Yes that is allowed. Anyway it doesn't matter if you played it prior to striking with a weapon or after. What it does is create a continuous modifier that lasts until the current wrap-up step. This modifier however checks against the current game state and as such, any changes to the ATK value on your hero after the resolution of Avenging Wrath's link also gets modified.

Not quite. Multiple modifiers are applied in time stamp order, so only +ATK modifers in existence prior to Avenging Wrath resolving will count toward the doubling.

 104.3       Some continuous modifiers say to “double” a numerical value. Such a modifier continuously doubles that value, incorporating any other modifiers to that value with earlier timestamps.

Sorry to bring this thread back, but this issue has been bugging me for a few days... it seems rule 104.3 could be interpreted two ways:

Interpretation 1: Only modifiers played before Avenging Wrath are doubled, and it checks continuously to see if they are still there.

Interpretation 2: Avenging Wrath continuously doubles the total attack value for the entire turn, including those played after Avenging Wrath.  The wording of rule 104.3 can be interpreted as: "Incorporates all other modifiers, giving them earlier timestamps."  Basically meaning you always apply doubling after all other modifiers.

I'm wondering what the developers actually intended.  The confusion is whether the rule means "only any other modifier that already has an earlier timestamp" is doubled or "any other modifer" is given an earlier timestamp and doubled.

The modifier from Avenging Wrath does not affect the modifiers with earlier timestamps, only the value on which they had their effect.

Blessing of Might, for example, would give the Paladin +1 ATK while attacking. The modifer from Avenging Wrath would then double the ATK of the Paladin to 2, but it is not doubling the +1 ATK from the Blessing of Might, only the value that BoM affects.

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No quote for you!

303.2a Striking with a weapon follows the applicable rules for adding links (707) and adds a strike
effect to the chain. As a strike effect resolves, it creates a strike modifier that gives its
controller’s hero both of the following for the duration of the combat step:
· +X ATK, where X is the ATK of that weapon as that effect resolves.
· The damage type (205) of that weapon.

Striking is a modifier to your hero's attack. In order for Avenging Wrath to affect strikes performed after Avenging has resolved the rules for "double" would have to be modified to work as all other continuous modifiers and work only off of the current game state, or Avenging Wrath would have to read "If your hero would deal combat damage this turn, double that damage instead."

I'm wrong.

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Simon Key

Yugioh! TCG Rules Knowledge Level 3
WoW TCG Rules Knowledge Level 2
WoW Minis Rules Knowledge Level 1
Player Management Level 3
Tournament Organizer Level 1

966558:

I'm wrong.

Darn, I missed it. ;-)

 What were you wrong about?

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No quote for you!

Everything I said...

Apparently, I've fallen back into the realm of not knowing anyhthing about this game and how it works...

And things that say 'this turn' only take into account things that happened before they were played and not after, which is completely ridiculous, IMHO...

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Simon Key

Yugioh! TCG Rules Knowledge Level 3
WoW TCG Rules Knowledge Level 2
WoW Minis Rules Knowledge Level 1
Player Management Level 3
Tournament Organizer Level 1

966558:

Everything I said...

Apparently, I've fallen back into the realm of not knowing anyhthing about this game and how it works...

And things that say 'this turn' only take into account things that happened before they were played and not after, which is completely ridiculous, IMHO...

Eh, I guess you have to draw a line somewhere on how to apply modifiers and such. Do I disagree with you that it's silly? No, but it's what we have to work with.

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No quote for you!

I think you are wrong about being wrong  ;)

 

714.3e A definite modifier affecting multiple cards doesn’t flag any cards as it’s created. Such a

modifier continuously checks what cards it applies to, so it can affect cards that weren’t

affected as it was created, and it can stop affecting cards that were affected as it was created.

Example: You control one ally and play Rally the Troops, which reads, “Allies in your party

have +1 ATK this turn.” Later that turn, you play a second ally. That ally also has +1 ATK

this turn. Later that same turn, an opponent gains control of one of your allies. That ally no

longer has +1 ATK, because it’s no longer in your party.

 

This example shows us that continuous modifiers do effect things played after them. The verbage is almost identical.  The confusion does stem from:

104.3 Some continuous modifiers say to “double” a numerical value. Such a modifier continuously

doubles that value, incorporating any other modifiers to that value with earlier timestamps.

 

If a new modifier was introduced that changed the ATK, this modifier would double it.  If the source was removed, teh double was also removed (as in the blessing of might example).

 

 

 

Continuous modifiers are applied in timestamp order. While continuous modifiers can apply to cards played after the modifier was created, they cannot affect other modifiers that were created after themselves.

The important part of 104.3 is this "with earlier timestamps". That means that doubling a numerical value will incorporate any modifiers with earlier timestamps, but not with later timestamps.

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The hands of a healer