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where is the next worlds going to be?

Last post 11-05-2009, 10:50 AM by BerndR. 98 replies.
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  •  11-03-2009, 9:38 PM 1852488 in reply to 1852479

    Re: where is the next words going to be?

    1511318:
    Austin was on par with Boston in terms of price (in my experience it was); however, it failed to have the same benefits as a larger city in terms of nightlife, being an airline hub, etc. The disconnect in terms of worlds has nothing to do with complaining, but more because of the lack of common sense when scheduling an event like this, which was for the players. (See: customers) Jack pretty much summed up everything in his post. It comes down to picking a central location that works for the entire player base along with being an attractive location. I fail to understand how you can even make the argument that Austin is a superior location to something on the east coast, especially given the fact that the prices were similar and the turnout would be higher?

    Also, why is it suddenly taboo to express any type of disappointment with UDE on these boards?
    Austin nightlife is fine as it's a college city, the airport services many major airlines, etc. I don't think Austin is superior than Boston. I'm indifferent (other than that Boston is driving distance for me). I think any city that's like the top 20 big American cities (Austin is one of them) would suffice. I think it's a good thing that Worlds is held at different cities to cover as much playerbase as possible.

    Jack's post is viewed from the perspective of the European base. If UDE's goal was to maximize attendance from Europeans, then obviously an East Coast location would be better.

    I will give you that Boston is a more tourist-friendly location than Austin, and it would increase European turnout. But if that's the case then Worlds should be held in NYC every year. I'm sure the Californians would be posting threads raving about how great that idea would be.


    My entire collection for sale.
  •  11-03-2009, 9:46 PM 1852491 in reply to 1852485

    Re: where is the next words going to be?

    Question really is how many people come to a tournament to SITE SEE...

    When I did GenCon for Nats - I spent about 75% of my time in the tourney area with 20% sleeping in hotel room and 5% eating/shopping at the convention... 

    How many people truly goes to Boston, Austin, Charlotte, Paris to do anything other than play the game. I work for a living and can't afford to take off a whole week and spend more money on hotel rooms to "Visit" a host city.

    With Realm Champs coming up for Azshara being in Philly - Cause there are so many people that live in Philly the city that play - If I dont make day 2 for realm champs I will not be back for day 2 for the season 5 trials. It is a waiste of money for hotel room and parking in Philly not to mention I could wind up dead cause it is the murder capitol of the world.

     

  •  11-03-2009, 9:57 PM 1852495 in reply to 1852491

    Re: where is the next words going to be?

    I agree with thabigwolf.  Clearly UDE is trying to kill off its playerbase by holding tournaments in dangerous areas.  What's next, DMF: The Sun?

    Check out my Article Series "Tools of the Trade" here at wowtcg.com!
  •  11-03-2009, 10:17 PM 1852500 in reply to 1852397

    Re: where is the next words going to be?

    1753131:

    What NEEDS to happen is you guys have to get City, Date and Venue information out 4 months before the event.

    Seriously.

    Hotel room prices nearly doubled before you guys released official information for Austin. If you question this please call me, i got details for you. PM if you do not know how to get a hold of me.


    The city, date, and venue information was announced on October 17, 2008, almost exactly one year before the event. The press release is quite easy to find to verify the date.

    "Paris, France (10 October, 2008) - Continuing the globe-trotting tradition of the World of Warcraft® Trading Card Game World Championship Tournament, Upper Deck (UD) today announced plans to bring the event to Austin, Texas in 2009. To be held at the Austin Convention Center, October 8th - 11th, 2009, the 2009 World of Warcraft TCG World Championship Tournament will feature a prize pool worth more than $250,000! "


    --
    Ben Drago
    Marketing Manager, Organized Play
  •  11-03-2009, 11:45 PM 1852518 in reply to 1852389

    Re: where is the next words going to be?

    1208645:
    Convenience has nothing to do with the cost of getting somewhere and was probably a poor choice of words on my part. But if you asked me (or most card players, let alone European ones) to choose a city to hold your flagship event in stateside, none of us will ever choose Austin. If you ignore Indianapolis, there's been Boston, Charlotte, San Francisco, Anaheim, New Jersey, Seattle and Orlando as DMF locations over the past couple of years.

    I'm sure this is going to be a big fight that will end badly, but when has that stopped me before. :)

    So here's some background information:
    1) I've been involved with "a few" major tournaments in the last five years in the United States. Off the top of my head, we've gone to: New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, Dallas, San Diego, San Jose, Detroit, San Francisco, Indianapolis, Austin, Columbus, Charlotte, Baltimore/Washington DC, Boston, Minneapolis, Denver, Seattle, Las Vegas, Atlanta, Orlando, New Orleans, and St. Louis.
    2) As the OP manager, I picked Austin. Had I to do it over, I would still again. There are two things I wish had been different, which I'll discuss below.

    As soon as Worlds was announced to be in Austin about 20 people from UK changed their minds about going.

    Wait a minute - I thought it was Americans that were supposed to be stupid. ;)

    Austin isn't a small town. It's top 15 in the US, and has 1.6 million people in the metropolitan area. If we looked at Europe and eliminated cities based on size, it would be the equivalent of saying that Amsterdam or Munich aren't options for flagship events.

    I also disagree that size should be the primary factor for events. We ran a Pro Circuit in New York City, and players hated that rooms at the Best Western in NYC start at $200 a night, and can easily be double that based on demand. We heard the same thing when we held a event in downtown San Francisco. If you try moving to venues that have more reasonable food and lodging options such as San Mateo (San Francisco) or Schaumburg (Chicago), people complain that there's nothing to do, or they have to rent a car.

    Have you been to the Los Angeles Convention Center or the Dallas Convention Center? I have, and they suck. You're in a big building in a crappy part of town.

    Austin is one of the few places in the US where the convention center isn't in the middle of nowhere or in a bad part of town. If you claim that there wasn't nightlife or restaurants nearby, it's because you didn't look very hard. There are over 40 bars and night clubs within four blocks of the convention center - if that's not enough "nightlife" for you I don't know what it.

    What I'm basically saying is that players (and specifically international players that qualify through honor for these events, so your key customers) want to do something other than play cards, and Austin is not a stand-out location for these players. New York, Boston, Vegas, Seattle, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Diego and Orlando are all locations that would certainly net you close to 100 more TCG players in the World Championships.

    Things I wish I could have changed:

    - The University of Texas having a home football game that weekend. When we booked the venue, their football schedule was not public. That doubled hotel prices near the convention center, as everyone wants to say next to 6th Street and the Warehouse District.
    - Providing better travel information to international players in their local language. There was quite a bit of information about travel, hotels, restaurants, nightlife, and things to do, but it was all in English.

    All I can do is compare to EU DMFs which are all in cities people want to visit with the exception of Milton Keynes (which was basically Darkmoon Faire London, but miles outside of London in a shopping centre).

    Comparing them to European events isn't very informative. Events in the US have to significant challenges:
    1) Distance
    2) Population density

    London-Paris or Paris-Amsterdam are both about 300 miles. Los Angeles to San Francisco is over 400 miles and they're in the same state. Los Angeles to Seattle is 1100 miles, while Los Angeles to Dallas is over 1400.

    We also don't have any inexpensive regional transportation options. You either have a car or buy an airline ticket. Technically there are passenger trains in a few areas, but they're almost all expensive and slow.

    It's unfortunate that people jumped to conclusions or didn't look for advice before the event.

    BD
    --
    Ben Drago
    Marketing Manager, Organized Play
  •  11-04-2009, 12:43 AM 1852532 in reply to 1852518

    Re: where is the next words going to be?

    I enjoyed Worlds.  There was plenty of 'night-life' activity 2 blocks from the Convention center. 

    There was even a female roller derby event on the other side of the convention center on Saturday night!  How can it get better than that ???

     

  •  11-04-2009, 1:12 AM 1852536 in reply to 1852485

    Re: where is the next words going to be?

    1429081:
    How about San Francisco since the California player base showed up in droves?

    Worlds should always be in the USA.  Its a USA game.


    Use Brain, Brian. There are more player (based that there are more Melting Points /Cities + in Europe live more than double of inhabitans than in Us) + its much easyer for them to travel arround ....this is based on two reasons .....Distances are not so far + much better Train/ Highway System (called infrastructur). Myb Ude will loose a lot of Player ---> means money if they will swap system.

    At this worlds we were only 15 German People ...Worlds in San Diego we were over 35 People (without Minis). I personally know some people which dont wanna travel only cause it was Austin. My aunt (shes nativ Us) visited our familie 3 weeks before, i told her worlds will be in Austin and she felt disappointed (now i know why). Well
    i have been traveled alot in the World and i realy know many nice Cities like Berlin,Paris, London, Barcelona, Rom, Milan, Vienna .... all this places has something to offer ....nice buildings, a lot of history .....in Austin i only visited the football stadium and the university of texas (which was nice) ..... and i went all day eating steak /fastfood which was nice too. Nightlife was a joke since the bars close at 1.30 (i normaly go in clubs at 11.00)
    It was nice that 24hour card for bus is just 1,5 $ (in Germany its more than quadruple of this prize) ....but i have seen only poor people (appart from me) using it. But all in all i can say that event was nice, i got my cash back that i invested and i felt comfortable with all the people there.
    All Eyes on me
  •  11-04-2009, 1:22 AM 1852538 in reply to 1852485

    Re: where is the next words going to be?

    1429081:
    How about San Francisco since the California player base showed up in droves?

    Worlds should always be in the USA.  Its a USA game.

    No please lets get out of this country next year.
    Like Tokyo, or anything in Euro Sounds good...

    But when picking an american city, follow these three rules...
    If they have a MLB team, NBA team, or NFL team, they are good.
    If they have a major international airport they should be ok.
    and finally the last and most important qualifier...
    If some form of aliens were going to station huge ships over 15 major cities in an independence day/V-esque invasion, would they choose the city you're choosing for worlds? No? then we shouldn't be heading there...
  •  11-04-2009, 2:39 AM 1852551 in reply to 1852485

    Re: where is the next words going to be?

    1429081:

    Worlds should always be in the USA.  Its a USA game.


    And Olympic games should always be in greece...

    Such a poor vision of the problem !

    If non us-resident would stop buy/playing wowtcg i can bet my hand that wowtcg would die in the year.

    I totally agree with Jack on the fact Austin was a bad choice.
    The french community would have been bigger for this tournament if it was a "worlwide known center of interest"...which Austin is not from our european vision unfortunately.
    I do not dream when i hear "Austin" and it's quite difficult to try to convince my wife to let me go if i can't even name something there without looking on wikipedia...

    We need to have a shift USA/EUROPE each year so to keep the european community playing this game.
    Asia is not (in my opinion) a good place to hold such an event because the local community is not bigger enought to fill the "random player slots" that make a tournament a 500 players event.
    The top players of each country will always fly for such an event whatever the place is, but not the casual players that makes those events a success.
    Borow,
    Administrator of www.wowccg.fr
    Levels: RK2/PM2
    Judge at "French Nats 2007","French Nats 2008","Lilles DMF 2007","Stuttgart DMF 2008", "Lyon DMF 2008", "Worlds Paris 2008"
  •  11-04-2009, 2:43 AM 1852553 in reply to 1852551

    Re: where is the next words going to be?

    How many people went to worlds at Austin?
    Leeeeroooy!
  •  11-04-2009, 2:46 AM 1852555 in reply to 1852553

    Re: where is the next words going to be?

    Under 300 (Cologne DMF was bigger)
    All Eyes on me
  •  11-04-2009, 2:50 AM 1852558 in reply to 1852555

    Re: where is the next words going to be?

    And what would be the average attendance for the major events?
    Leeeeroooy!
  •  11-04-2009, 2:55 AM 1852560 in reply to 1852558

    Re: where is the next words going to be?

    450 to 500
    All Eyes on me
  •  11-04-2009, 3:00 AM 1852561 in reply to 1852518

    Re: where is the next words going to be?

    1108382:

    - Providing better travel information to international players in their local language. There was quite a bit of information about travel, hotels, restaurants, nightlife, and things to do, but it was all in English.

    BD


    It's not something new.
    I have sent several emails and mp to propose our "free" service to translate those (articles/news/blogs) pages into french against being part of the "writer's program" (E.A against articles) but i never received any answers...
    So this "information" point could be resolved simply i you want to resolve it.
    Borow,
    Administrator of www.wowccg.fr
    Levels: RK2/PM2
    Judge at "French Nats 2007","French Nats 2008","Lilles DMF 2007","Stuttgart DMF 2008", "Lyon DMF 2008", "Worlds Paris 2008"
  •  11-04-2009, 6:45 AM 1852622 in reply to 1852561

    Re: where is the next words going to be?

    Why not hold worlds at the same location every year?  Take Las Vegas as an example; cheap rooms, centrally located convention centers, desirable location, close to UDE's homebase, plenty to do outside of the tournament, etc.  The biggest downside is that it's further for Europeans in terms of travel.  (there'd have to be something on the east coast that's similiar)

    There's a reason the NACC draws so many people every year.  Everyone knows where it's going to be every year and there's plenty to do outside of the tournament.  I mean, how are you guys supposed to generate buzz (both inside and outside the game) about the biggest event of the year when it takes place in what amounts to a college town?  I'm still wondering why there has never been a DMF or a major tournament at Blizzcon?

    2349176:
    1429081:
    How about San Francisco since the California player base showed up in droves?

    Worlds should always be in the USA.  Its a USA game.
    No please lets get out of this country next year. Like Tokyo, or anything in Euro Sounds good... But when picking an american city, follow these three rules... If they have a MLB team, NBA team, or NFL team, they are good. If they have a major international airport they should be ok. and finally the last and most important qualifier... If some form of aliens were going to station huge ships over 15 major cities in an independence day/V-esque invasion, would they choose the city you're choosing for worlds? No? then we shouldn't be heading there...

    Perfectly articulated!

    -Jeff-


    WOW. TCG. SCRUB.
    Go ahead, give it a try, everybody's doing it.

    Toolbox of Terror; killing you softly every Tuesdays.

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