Upper Deck Entertainment Forums

1134447:

I'm surprised to see someone suggest that DAD needs limiting. If you look at the decks and read the match reports, 90% of the time DAD is merely the set up for the return/fusion. Yes DAD is a good card, and will most likely get restricted come sept 1st, but in no way is it a card that is ruining the format.

This is indeed very true. I never saw a reason to limit DAD because it's effect really isn't that broken to begin with. The banning of Dimension Fusion and the limiting of  RFtDD to one will make pulling off the combo a lot harder now so we may not see three dragons to a deck now either.

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Yu-gi-oh Level 1 Judge.
Yu-gi-oh Level 1 Tournament Organizer
USA Student in Mobile, AL duelist king.

1889247:

1134447:

I'm surprised to see someone suggest that DAD needs limiting. If you look at the decks and read the match reports, 90% of the time DAD is merely the set up for the return/fusion. Yes DAD is a good card, and will most likely get restricted come sept 1st, but in no way is it a card that is ruining the format.

This is indeed very true. I never saw a reason to limit DAD because it's effect really isn't that broken to begin with. The banning of Dimension Fusion and the limiting of  RFtDD to one will make pulling off the combo a lot harder now so we may not see three dragons to a deck now either.

Whenever Konami/UDE ban cards, they usually look at one of three things.

1: How Overused is it.

2: Is it a key part in OTK/FTK

3: How much "Advantage" does it give?

In this case, DAD is very close. It's highly overused, it's a key to OTK, and it gives a +3. DAD's Veerrrrryy high up there, and contrasting everyone's beliefs: it is Very easy to summon, even without Allure.

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Level 1 YGO Rules Knowledge Judge

Any card that is +3 upon summoning and rewards you with a win condition to boot, all attached to a 2800 ATK body is extremely broken. But with the some of the luck taken out of it, at least you have a realistic chance of topping a counter for it or limit the damage at worst. DAD should probably get the axe on september 1st, but this is a mid-format ban, you don't want to be too drastic with those things, and its a good experiment to see just how strong the presence of DAD in the upper echelons is with the luck factor removed. I think its the right call to leave DAD for now, no matter how broken it is. I mean lightsworn and gladiators will get close, samurai are already close. Its best to evaluate the whole meta and make those necessary fixes when the time comes in december.

This change just sort of puts a band-aid on the general malaise the game is in, and even if it does nothing to fix the game per se, it at least makes it a matter of skill again right before the most important tournaments of the year. That can only be applauded.

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Quick update: If you tried to download the updates via RONIN last night, you got an error. This was due to me trying to rename files at 12:15 in the morning 8^D Things are fixed now and a simple restart of RONIN will detect and properly download the updates.

Many thanks to illusion for pointing this out!

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FienDillie-O: A Fiendish Duelist
Lair of Dark Monarchs

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1711588:

Any card that is +3 upon summoning and rewards you with a win condition to boot, all attached to a 2800 ATK body is extremely broken. But with the some of the luck taken out of it, at least you have a realistic chance of topping a counter for it or limit the damage at worst. DAD should probably get the axe on september 1st, but this is a mid-format ban, you don't want to be too drastic with those things, and its a good experiment to see just how strong the presence of DAD in the upper echelons is with the luck factor removed. I think its the right call to leave DAD for now, no matter how broken it is. I mean lightsworn and gladiators will get close, samurai are already close. Its best to evaluate the whole meta and make those necessary fixes when the time comes in december.

This change just sort of puts a band-aid on the general malaise the game is in, and even if it does nothing to fix the game per se, it at least makes it a matter of skill again right before the most important tournaments of the year. That can only be applauded.

UDE should have a  section called "Most Intelligent Statements ever", this deserves a Sticky in itself.

Indeed this was a wise decision, how UDE and Japan work things out are to be seen,.

On a side note: Slower Meta = Synchros are more competitive!

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Level 1 YGO Rules Knowledge Judge

I think the changes are ok, but the timing was BAD. Here in Costa Rica Nats will be held on sunday :S

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HoBBy League - TacTicAl EvoLutIoN ChaMpion!

1785512:

I think the changes are ok, but the timing was BAD. Here in Costa Rica Nats will be held on sunday :S

That was the idea really, to make sure that only those who can build good decks will win since Sworn won't be legal yet.

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Level 1 YGO Rules Knowledge Judge

when do you guys think the site is going to be updated?

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Yu-gi-oh!: Rules Knowledge Level 1

knowing ude like i do, september

1077863:

when do you guys think the site is going to be updated?

Probably just before the nationals.

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Level 1 YGO Rules Knowledge Judge

1885367:

1077863:

when do you guys think the site is going to be updated?

Probably just before the nationals.

More than like it'll probably be tomorrow as tomorrow is when the list becomes active.

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Wow, this is just wut the game needs except with the removal of the D Fusion and Return i dont see why that Allure is semi and D Draw isnt.

1711588:

I knew it. No one with a decent deck or skill would defend a blatant FTK like this with such vigor. It doesn't take practice. I built the deck the day after Diaz came 2nd, played around with it for 3 hours and I had it figured out. Like most FTK's, the thing pilots itself and most decisions have already been made for you, the only practice it takes is the first hour, figuring out when you have multiple options, which to use first. That's it. Then you are ready to start lucksacking people. Win the roll and don't run into any snags like an all monster hand or 5 draw 2 cards with nothing to feed them, and you win. Takes no skill, doesn't really matter if your opponent is good.

And there isn't a whole lot you can do different in these builds, so don't even get started on "they're not all the same". They're the same in every card that counts. And if you really want to prove me wrong, then just play it with one card difference ... No dimension fusion.

You seem to enjoy endulging yourself in overgeneralisation:).
I've performed well in various tournaments running monarchs, gadgets, six samurai etc. I even succeded in winning a pharaoh tour qualifier with a deck that mained cards like "thunder dragons" (without the deck being an FTK/ OTK or even combo deck) and "back to square one". So please refrain yourself from jumping to conclusions when you see someone defend an FTK deck and start proclaiming that "he/she must have no skill or another decent deck".
Regarding your statement that FTK decks pilot themselves, you're absolutely right. So if you go ahead and netdeck one, and you familiarize yourself with it for 1 to 3 hours you'll get the hang of it and understand how it's supposed to be played.
However, did you continue from there? Did you improve the deck beyond what it was capable before you just played around with the netdecked list?
Whether or not you did, I did and I improved it. I did so by replacing roughly 9 cards from the original erin diaz' build. You might reason that that would still leave me with a deck that is unoriginal for 78% but I dare you to replace the same ammount of cards from any standard six samurai or DaD deck while improving their consistency.
Once I actually run the final version of the deck it will indeed run on autopilote. But that in itself is something that is accomplished through deckbuilding. And contrary to your earlier statement, improving an already existing FTK takes a lot more time then the 1 to 3 hours it took you to familiarize yourself with the netdecked version.

1711588:

But here's the kicker, in a format where people expect others to show up with these lucksack decks, sidedecks are made. But wait, its an FTK, it will FTK about 60% of the time. So sidedeck all you want, this deck will win about 45-50% minimum anyway. Thing is, when idiots like that start getting lucky against good players, they take them out of contention. but because in a 10 round event you will come across at least three people who will have their neko mane, crow, oppression and what not on turn one, you don't even have a shot at Top 8/16. So all you are doing by taking a deck like that is eliminating skillful players from contention, with no more reward to you than winning 6-7 rounds instead of 3-4 in a 10 round event.

Again you have a valid point, these decks will not make top 16 and neither would the one I built.
But what is the use of taking a Six Samurai deck when your avarage DaD player will draw through half their deck on turn 1/2 and slap you silly with CCV or torrential? Same problem arises when you run a monarch or a gadget deck and face a DaD deck. By turn 2 you'll either have been OTK'ed or CCV'ed and you'll be ready to scoop.
We'll presumably both be at our countries' nationals (yes I'm a Belgian to) and if the current bans hadn't been in effect we'd have seen how a field of some 30 to 40 duelists would be dominated by some 20 to 30 DaD decks. Most of these DaD decks would have been netdecked and really, these decks also run on auto-pilote. So if I can choose between taking one of my "normal" decks and getting OTK'ed by 1500$ DaD-deck (thank you marketing departement of UDE) by turn 3 or taking an FTK deck that could humiliate said DaD deck then I'd rather make a statement by selecting the FTK deck and screwing up the entire tournament. If UDE decides to enforce OTK and FTKs (which is what they did with the release of PTDN and the march banned list) then I'll show them why they shouldn't.

and then they did!

three days before all of the big tournaments take place :s

UDE finally saw the (marketing) light (of destruction) and decided to set the format straight 3 days before people are supposed to show up for big tournaments. But then hey, what else could we expect from an overly-capitalist coöperation like UDE?

Hello

Ecuadorian national were last week, and about 5 decks out of the top 8 use DF. why UDE put the list this week and not last?

I think an emergency ban is a good way to "control" easy-playable decks...because isnt funny see the opponent get all his deck (and not playing exodia) and in my draw phase, before i pick my card...i just lose the game. :(

But, maybe they were a little "softer" with the ban list...maybe semi limited DaD and bringing back breaker would be a good idea...( i like gold serie breaker...) or something like this.

For people playing national this weekend, try changing strategies...maybe making DaD deck a beat down (try changing Dimension Fisure for a United we stand..hah hah...) or putting 3 DDR in main deck.. there are plenty of options to put in decks...

this is a phrase that i always use "Is not the power of the combat robot, but is the pilot skill" so..dont cry for 1 card ban, 1 limited and 1 semi-limited. try enjoying more the game...and think wisely what replacement card you will put!

And it is for the money you expend in a DaD deck, there are cheaper decks that are good..!! (trust me)

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Andamiro Supporter Leader (Pump It Up)
Yugioh Judge lvl 1
Yugioh Card Collector

1737293:

Again you have a valid point, these decks will not make top 16 and neither would the one I built.
But what is the use of taking a Six Samurai deck when your avarage DaD player will draw through half their deck on turn 1/2 and slap you silly with CCV or torrential? Same problem arises when you run a monarch or a gadget deck and face a DaD deck. By turn 2 you'll either have been OTK'ed or CCV'ed and you'll be ready to scoop.
We'll presumably both be at our countries' nationals (yes I'm a Belgian to) and if the current bans hadn't been in effect we'd have seen how a field of some 30 to 40 duelists would be dominated by some 20 to 30 DaD decks. Most of these DaD decks would have been netdecked and really, these decks also run on auto-pilote. So if I can choose between taking one of my "normal" decks and getting OTK'ed by 1500$ DaD-deck (thank you marketing departement of UDE) by turn 3 or taking an FTK deck that could humiliate said DaD deck then I'd rather make a statement by selecting the FTK deck and screwing up the entire tournament. If UDE decides to enforce OTK and FTKs (which is what they did with the release of PTDN and the march banned list) then I'll show them why they shouldn't.

After reading this, I don't see the problem. Apart from not getting lucksacked by OTK/FTK decks, giving skilled duellists a chance to win, these changes also check the luck factor in DAD decks. No more DAD return, no more getting wasted by d-fusion or return for a dark swarm to end game, just a little harder to regulate the graveyard and a lot less reward in removing half your graveyard, since you can't return massive amounts of monsters at once.

Last I checked there will be about 100 duellists at nats this Saturday. Of those, about 20-25 had the money or means to put together a proper DAD deck. How is it a fair game when they get to win half their games by drawing half their deck, removing a lot of monster to destroy your field and follow it up with a swarm for the win ... on turn 2 ? And if you manage to do well against DAD and survive or avoid the lucksack plays, you get mowed down by some guy who is playing an FTK deck, who, as you admit yourself, isn't even playing to top 8/16 and ruins your chances of getting anywhere ? These changes take a lot of the luck out of it. The timing only increases the chances of the best players coming out on top. If you are such a good deckbuilder, and play so many themes, it can't be THAT hard to grab one out of the deckbox and play that instead ? I mean DAD is a lot less dangerous now, so Gladiators, gadgets, samurai all have good shots. Or if you really still want to get 6-7 wins instead of 3-4, you can always do what they did all the past years : play burn. Just as annoying as OTK decks, but at least you are more likely to get your extra wins at the expense of people who wouldn't top 8 anyway.

And on the other issue, I don't just change around decks, unless its something fun for a smaller tournament. I simply build everything, original and netdeck, play it, draw my conclusions and put it away. Then I build decks with what I learned. That's how people should be benefiting from decks they see others play. Not by copying them and then have two netdeckers argue online that one is better than the other because he changed 3 cards, or even 9 cards. For the record, I tried at least 7 set-ups in those three hours I played the deck, with multiple royal magical libraries, more playable monsters, swapping out plasma's and dogma's for dreadmasters against CCV (as I assume anyone probably did after reading the finals coverage), and several cyber valley builds as well. totalling anywhere from 0 to 15 cards difference (which is about as much as you can change really without killing the deck). If I can do that in three hours, you can't seriously tell me you can't do it in three days. At least you know, you have the time to build, test etc still. I'm guessing there will be people who learned the night before or the same morning about the change. Though likely those will be the people least likely to be playing those cards. So I don't foresee a huge upheavil. Most people have been quite positive about the change, either happy or fairly indifferent.

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