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Serpent Sting/Static Charge, Boston, and Continentals.

Last post 08-06-2009, 3:52 PM by syphonhail. 6 replies.
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  •  08-04-2009, 7:36 AM 1808493

    Serpent Sting/Static Charge, Boston, and Continentals.

    Sicne Vashj appears to be gaining ground and I think this was ruled incorrectly at Boston, I wanted to get official clarification before Continentals. From the OCR:

    Serpent Sting, T2R4, Hunter
    Debuff—Poison, Marksmanship
    When debuffed character takes an action, deal 1
    damage to it after that action.


    Static Charge, T1R3, Lady Vashj
    Debuff, Elemental
    Lady Vashj Only
    When debuffed character takes an action, deal 1
    damage to it and each of its adjacent allies after
    that action.


    Let's say Haruka, with one health remaining, attacks someone with her her Manslayer:

    Haruka Skycaller, 8, Horde
    Orc Shaman—Enhancement, 3A 3R 8H
    Ancient Hakkari Manslayer [T3R1P6] (Melee)
    [Crit]: Haruka may immediately play Flame Shock
    without paying its [Tick] cost.
    Flame Shock [T2R2M4] (Fire)
    [Crit]: Damage +1.


    The order clearly appears to be: Pay cost of action by ticking Haruka up, Roll attack dice (assume she gets a crit), roll defense dice, Haruka takes one damage and dies, Her free flameshock fails to launch.

    At Boston, the order was ruled by a few judges: Pay cost of action by ticking Haruka up, Haruka takes one damage and dies.  She never attacks. 

    The latter ruling leads to a one health character running around choosing between being useless, ticking up several, taking a damage, and then ticking up two more, or hoping the opponent will deliver the coup de grace so your character could be useful again.


  •  08-05-2009, 4:26 PM 1809715 in reply to 1808493

    Re: Serpent Sting/Static Charge, Boston, and Continentals.

    Making a ruling based on Comprehensive rule

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    703.1i   If that ability hasn’t been negated, any abilities watching for that ability being played, or an action being taken (if that ability is an action), or any of that ability’s targets being targeted, trigger and resolve immediately. Then, that ability itself resolves.

                There is nothing that states whether or not the character that made the action needs to stay on the field. Attack dice are rolled, defense dice are rolled, then Haruka dies, then her attack goes through. If we were talking a scenario where a character would make an attack off the crit, my ruling would be that that crit attack would not go through. In this case, though, the attack has been made, and will successfully resolve, per the rules.

    Plus, in this scenario, those effects clearly state "after that action." So, in actuality, Haruka would die after her first attack but would not get to Flame Shock because she died before the opportunity presented itself.

    Fine, I'll post my certifications...

    WoW TCG L2
    WoW Minis L1
    Player Management L2
    Huntik L1
    Tournament Organizer L1
  •  08-06-2009, 8:05 AM 1810073 in reply to 1809715

    Re: Serpent Sting/Static Charge, Boston, and Continentals.

    Herbert:
    There is nothing that states whether or not the character that made the action needs to stay on the field.
    The CR begs to differ...at least for attacks...
    WoW Minis Comp Rules:
    600.3    An attack is negated if the attacker is no longer in play or all proposed defenders, if it’s not an AOE, are no longer in play. If an attack is negated, it doesn’t resolve, no characters attack, and none of the following happens. Otherwise, the attack resolves and the following happens in order, even if the attack has 0 power.


    Simon Key

    Player Management Level 4
    WoW TCG Rules Knowledge Level 2
    WoW Minis Rules Knowledge Level 2
    Huntik TCG Rules Knowledge Level 1
    Tournament Organizer Level 1
    UDE Forums Moderator
  •  08-06-2009, 8:53 AM 1810134 in reply to 1810073

    Re: Serpent Sting/Static Charge, Boston, and Continentals.

    In that case, it sounds like Haruka would tick up for the attack, wait for reacts, roll attack and defense dice, take fatal damage after taking an action, then no attack happens.

    Fine, I'll post my certifications...

    WoW TCG L2
    WoW Minis L1
    Player Management L2
    Huntik L1
    Tournament Organizer L1
  •  08-06-2009, 11:24 AM 1810289 in reply to 1810134

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    Re: Serpent Sting/Static Charge, Boston, and Continentals.

    In the scenario presented, Haruka's initial attack would resolve and the defender should take attack damage if the difference in the attack rolls against the defense roll is a positive integer. Haruka's destruction via Serpent Sting's trigger would only occur come 602.3 which reads:

    602.3        Resolve any associated non-crit abilities (like Fillet’s) and waiting triggered abilities (like Serpent Sting) that apply “after” the attack or action.

    The CR used a somewhat similar scenario as the one presented for its example.

    I hope this helped.

    Thanks!

  •  08-06-2009, 1:12 PM 1810370 in reply to 1808493

    Re: Serpent Sting/Static Charge, Boston, and Continentals.

    syphonhail:
    Sicne Vashj appears to be gaining ground and I think this was ruled incorrectly at Boston, I wanted to get official clarification before Continentals. From the OCR:

    Serpent Sting, T2R4, Hunter
    Debuff—Poison, Marksmanship
    When debuffed character takes an action, deal 1
    damage to it after that action.


    Static Charge, T1R3, Lady Vashj
    Debuff, Elemental
    Lady Vashj Only
    When debuffed character takes an action, deal 1
    damage to it and each of its adjacent allies after
    that action.


    Let's say Haruka, with one health remaining, attacks someone with her her Manslayer:

    Haruka Skycaller, 8, Horde
    Orc Shaman—Enhancement, 3A 3R 8H
    Ancient Hakkari Manslayer [T3R1P6] (Melee)
    [Crit]: Haruka may immediately play Flame Shock
    without paying its [Tick] cost.
    Flame Shock [T2R2M4] (Fire)
    [Crit]: Damage +1.


    The order clearly appears to be: Pay cost of action by ticking Haruka up, Roll attack dice (assume she gets a crit), roll defense dice, Haruka takes one damage and dies, Her free flameshock fails to launch.

    At Boston, the order was ruled by a few judges: Pay cost of action by ticking Haruka up, Haruka takes one damage and dies.  She never attacks. 

    The latter ruling leads to a one health character running around choosing between being useless, ticking up several, taking a damage, and then ticking up two more, or hoping the opponent will deliver the coup de grace so your character could be useful again.
    The ruling used during Boston was based off an error on my part I'm afraid.  I was going off a discussion with UDE that was no longer relevant at the time.

    The correct order is indeed:
    Announce action 703.1a
    Choose target(s) 703.1c
    Pay costs 703.1d
    Wait for Reacts 703.1h (assume none)
    Serpent Sting triggers 703.1i (but does not resolve until 602.3)
    Check for attacker/defender still in play 600.3 (if not in play, attack is negated)
    Wait for Protectors 600.4 (assume none)
    Roll attack dice 601.1 (assume she gets a crit)
    Roll defense dice 601.2
    Deal any attack damage 602.1a
    Resolve Serpent Sting's effect 602.3 (Haruka dies)
    Resolve Haruka's crit 602.5 (start attack process over)
    Her free Flameshock attack is negated due to 600.3.

    The intent of Serpent Sting (and the like) is to allow the action to completely resolve before dealing any damage.

    Simon Key

    Player Management Level 4
    WoW TCG Rules Knowledge Level 2
    WoW Minis Rules Knowledge Level 2
    Huntik TCG Rules Knowledge Level 1
    Tournament Organizer Level 1
    UDE Forums Moderator
  •  08-06-2009, 3:52 PM 1810472 in reply to 1810370

    Re: Serpent Sting/Static Charge, Boston, and Continentals.

    Simon - thanks for looking into this/resolving the issue ahead of time.
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