Upper Deck Entertainment Forums

Can I place cards like for example treeborn frog sideways in my graveyard (so that I can remember it easier)?

I would think it's allowed since I don't disturb the order of the cards.

I want to say you cannot do this, but I don't know for certain.

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Yu-Gi-Oh Rules Lvl-1
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EDIT: Never mind.   

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Level 2 WoW RK
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Level 2 Specialist (Demo Team)
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Ive never had a problem with markers on cards in the graveyard as long as the order is unchanged like you said. We are not here to be prison guards, just to make sure the game runs with integrity.

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World of Warcraft Rules&Knowledge Lv2
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The force is with you!!

You can not do this.  This is clear example of a minor procedural error, a player doing this should receive the apropriate written warning and be told to keep the Graveyard in an organized, neat pile. Multiple infractions would result in escalated penalties.

In general you can't take notes outside of tracking Life Points during a game.  You can't mark cards in your deck or Graveyard or removed from play pile (such as turning them side ways or putting certain cards on top or fanning those piles out so you can see each card at one glance).  However; the Graveyard and removed from play piles are public knowledge so as long as you aren't taking to much time or being disruptive to the flow of the game you are welcome to check your Graveyard/RFP regularly to ensure you are aware of the current game state.

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Owner of Plus One Cards

Wow you cant take notes in yugioh? This is something they can do in wowtcg. So ignore what I said. Event thoe I personally didnt see a problem with it. But if your not alloud to take notes then Id say no and agree with brain. I should take sometime a look at the key diffences between the two games. Find out what little techinical stuff like taking notes, that is different between between the games.

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World of Warcraft Rules&Knowledge Lv2
Yugioh Rules&Knowledge Lv1
Player Management Lv2
The force is with you!!

That is correct the only notes you are allowed in YGO is:
1.life totals
2.the name of the card that caused the life point change, or in the case of attacks, the attacking and defending monster
3.numbers related to card effects (ie final countdown, SoRL etc)

However Byran, where does it say the graveyard must be a neat pile? I have scanned the YGO policy doc and didn't see anything to prevent them being fanned out or one turned sideways as long as the order is maintained. The Policy doc only mentions not shuffling or rearranging the order of the graveyard.

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WoW RK2
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I don't believe this issue is directly addressed in the current Policy Documents.

This is just my sentiments and how I have seen and personally handled these types of situations dating back to the days of "Sinister Serpent."

I would consider 'noting' optional effects in your Graveyard little different than making quick hand written notes in many other situations players have tried to.  And fanning out or marking the Graveyard can be disruptive to the game and give one of the players an unfair edge.  At the 2nd Shonen Jump Chicago a player who made the second day of competetion repeadetly would fan out there entire Graveyard to keep track of their cards for purposes of "Chaos Sorcerer," "Treeborn Frog," and "Pot of Avarice."  The Graveyard constantly became such a long string of cards laid overlapping eachother that in went around his deck and down beneath his Spell/Trap Zone.  The judge staff had to fix the issue by organizing the Graveyard several times that weekend.  I've made it my tournament policy that Graveyards should not be fanned out or marked in any way.

This is one of those 'where do you draw the line' issues.  I say no marking cards by disrupting the Graveyard, RFP, or deck.  But perhaps someone from UDE can clarify more specifically what their standpoint is (and maybe there is a different mindset for WoW and Yu-Gi-Oh!).

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Owner of Plus One Cards

For the same reason that the order of the graveyard must be maintained, a players cards may not be fanned nor monsters turned sideways. That main reason is the card "Question" If the cards are fanned it only takes one glace to know the first monster on the bottom of the deck, on a similar note, putting Treeborn Frog (or any other monster) sideways may reveal the 1st monster placed in the graveyard or help the player to remember the 1st monster placed in a graveyard.....this issue is technical reason, in addition I agree with Bryan in that space is usually very limited between players often stuck at tables like Sardines and fanning cards isn't often an option, it also often confuses the field (it's seldom done in an orderly fashion) and other cards (removed from play) can easily be mixed in.

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Yu-Gi-Oh! RK3
PM L3
TO L1
Specialist L1

Bringing up Removed from Play cards. 

There is no designated location for them on the field and I know players who place these cards sideways  on the graveyard stack. I have advised against this and urged them to use the field spell zone if they are not playing with field spells, but as I was  not the judge at the event I was pretty much ignored.

 

So where are tghey supposed  to put RFP cards?

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1425175:

Bringing up Removed from Play cards. 

There is no designated location for them on the field and I know players who place these cards sideways  on the graveyard stack. I have advised against this and urged them to use the field spell zone if they are not playing with field spells, but as I was  not the judge at the event I was pretty much ignored.

 

So where are tghey supposed  to put RFP cards?

What I normally do is use the Field Spell Zone or if they are playing Field Spells, then I place them behind my deck in plain view, or beside the Graveyard.

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Level 1 rules
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That isn't always an option though. First of all, you may not want to tip your hand that you aren't playing field spells. Secondly, it could be considered an issue for the opposing player to put any card in a zone that it was designated to go to. What you are suggesting is tantamount to saying an RFP monster can be put in a spell or trap zone "because you weren't planning on using all 5 anyway". But if that monster is a crystal beast ...

There also isn't always room to create another visible RFP zone on the table that doesn't create confusion. So while I would advise against it myself, if both players agree that their RFP cards are put in the grave sideways, or are placed upside down in the correct order underneat the grave then that's fine by me. I'm aware that the RFP zone should be face-up, but since I'm of the opinion you should always ask before grabbing an opponents graved or RFP'ed cards, its not a big deal, since you can just ask to see the RFP zone at any time.

If there is room to create an RFP zone outside of the playing field that should always be pursued in a fashion that does not create confusion. If there is not, I feel that an agreement made between two players in the presence of a judge should be enough to prevent further conflict because of practices like placing cards sideways.

On the initial issue I have to agree that placing the frog sideways is a no-no. If you are too stupid to remember you have a frog in your graveyard, spend more time studying and less time playing TCG's.

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The RFP Zone is public knowledge.

The RFP Zone is completely separate from your Graveyard.

The cards in your RFP Zone should not be 'mixed' into your Graveyard for any reason at all....ever.
Players should not be placing their RFP cards upside down under their Graveyard, nor should they be turning them sideways in the Graveyard.

The RFP cards need to be face-up in a single pile.  Normally this pile is placed directly above the Graveyard.  If you play with a modified field setup, then you need to clearly indicate to your opponent where your RFP pile will be located.

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Simon Key

Yugioh! TCG Rules Knowledge Level 3
WoW TCG Rules Knowledge Level 2
Player Management Level 3
Tournament Organizer Level 1

Like simon said. RFP zone should not be hiden. All piles that are face up are public knowledge and clearly seperated from each other so there is no confusion about where a card is.

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World of Warcraft Rules&Knowledge Lv2
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John
If someone is playing question then they would not be fanning or turning any card sideways in their graveyard. Since it affects only their own graveyard I don't think that is a very strong argument. I thought that back when sinister serpent was debated, Kevin had said that turning side ways was fine as long as the order didn't change. However, I could be remembering it backwards.

I would love to hear if UDE has a preference on the current way to handle this or if one of those issues left for the head judge to decide.

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WoW RK2
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