Upper Deck Entertainment Forums

Hi, usually I ask about some rule situations but today I have a abnormal problem in a tournament. A player plays a deck with "Self-Destruct Button". (The Button is the only strategy in the deck.) Now the Button player comes in the overtime, every round, again and again because he activates the effect of the Button very often. The tournament is protracted... Can a Judge something do in this situation? The deck has no win option but it's a legal deck to play in a tournament to have fun or something other reasons. Thanks in advance. yomifrog

I'm not certain what you are asking. What do you want to do in this situation?

There is nothing illegal about going to time as long as the player is not stalling.

There is nothing illegal about not having a win condition. (technically there is no such thing because every deck has the potential to deck out their opponent)

The tournament should be set up time-wise to account for games potentially going into time every round.

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1751835:

Hi, usually I ask about some rule situations but today I have a abnormal problem in a tournament. A player plays a deck with "Self-Destruct Button". (The Button is the only strategy in the deck.) Now the Button player comes in the overtime, every round, again and again because he activates the effect of the Button very often. The tournament is protracted... Can a Judge something do in this situation? The deck has no win option but it's a legal deck to play in a tournament to have fun or something other reasons. Thanks in advance. yomifrog

Please use the search function on the website prior to posting some questions.  This one has been recently answered.

Basically, the judge manager has deemed this strategy an acceptable one as long as the player is not intentionally stalling with his actions.  Simply tieing the games is not stalling.  Taking forever to make a move simple to win due to End of Match procedures is.

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Franklin Debrito
Player Management Lv4 / Yu-Gi-Oh! Lv3
VS System Lv1 / Specialist Lv2
World of Warcraft Lv1 / Tournament Organizer Lv1
UD Forums Moderator

1587995:

(The Button is the only strategy in the deck.) Now the Button player comes in the overtime, every round, again and again because he activates the effect of the Button very often. The tournament is protracted... Can a Judge something do in this situation? The deck has no win option but it's a legal deck to play in a tournament to have fun or something other reasons. Thanks in advance. yomifrog.

Basically, the judge manager has deemed this strategy an acceptable one as long as the player is not intentionally stalling with his actions.  Simply tieing the games is not stalling.  Taking forever to make a move simple to win due to End of Match procedures is

I've got to disagree.  If one player who (probably trying to be difficult, but would never admit it) was able to exhaust the normal time, and run the whole tournament into 40 minutes past overtime by tieing out 12, 14, 16 games....

This violates the integrity of the tournament.

This needs better thought and guidance, for the sake of the other 150 players.  As head Judge I am not willing to let them be held hostage or destroy their event.

I'd like to see more comment on this please.  Enjoying the game, if only we could start the next round....

 

1468858:

1587995:

(The Button is the only strategy in the deck.) Now the Button player comes in the overtime, every round, again and again because he activates the effect of the Button very often. The tournament is protracted... Can a Judge something do in this situation? The deck has no win option but it's a legal deck to play in a tournament to have fun or something other reasons. Thanks in advance. yomifrog.

Basically, the judge manager has deemed this strategy an acceptable one as long as the player is not intentionally stalling with his actions.  Simply tieing the games is not stalling.  Taking forever to make a move simple to win due to End of Match procedures is

I've got to disagree.  If one player who (probably trying to be difficult, but would never admit it) was able to exhaust the normal time, and run the whole tournament into 40 minutes past overtime by tieing out 12, 14, 16 games....

This violates the integrity of the tournament.

This needs better thought and guidance, for the sake of the other 150 players.  As head Judge I am not willing to let them be held hostage or destroy their event.

I'd like to see more comment on this please.  Enjoying the game, if only we could start the next round....

 

Though the deck can be annoying, it is not our place to decide if we can or can't allow such a deck at our sanctioned events, it is up to the good people at Upper Deck.  Upper Deck has stated that this deck is allowed.  Please note that the deck does not run 40 minutes past overtime because eventually, it will head to sudden death in which one of the 2 players will win.

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Franklin Debrito
Player Management Lv4 / Yu-Gi-Oh! Lv3
VS System Lv1 / Specialist Lv2
World of Warcraft Lv1 / Tournament Organizer Lv1
UD Forums Moderator

Well I know we want locals to be as much like premier events as we can from the judge's and players' perspectives.

I volunteer at our local store (when not at premier events) twice a week.  Tuesday night is when we usually have just our experienced players and few if any newbies.  Rounds are timed for 40 minutes, but some nights every round gets done in 25 minutes.  If every round completes that way sometimes I can squeeze in a Top 4 playoff before the store closes as a benefit to the (top) players.

On Saturday I give up nearly my entire day at the store.  We have many more people and many newbies....Rounds range from 30 minutes to 40+, but we know we will have a Top 8 playoff, so it takes as long as it takes.

Now if every single round of both Tuesday and Saturday nights took 40+ minutes because of the Self-Destruct player, I'd be encouraging the Self-Destruct player to pick a different deck, especially if they were not Top 8-ing....They would be needlessly slowing down the tournament in my opinion.

I am all for players playing non-Tier 1 decks, but this one deck seems like an exception.

We could solve this entire problem (except perhaps in traditional format) by banning the Self-Destruction Button card.

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Formerly ZombieMasterBlud
Denver Area Judge
Stonebridge Games Regular

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Well, is anyone experiencing frequently players running such a deck and causing undue extensions of end of match procedures? I haven't seen it in any tournament as of yet let alone frequently. I'm certain that if the percieved problem becomes a regular occurance it will be addressed, until that time I think the problem remains an extremely rare occurance (if ever) and one that doesn't need addressing.

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Yu-Gi-Oh! RK3
PM L3
TO L1
Specialist L1

I've seen a couple of tournament reports on the subject on Pojo recently.  I think that it's gaining a following, at least online, if only a small one.

The danger here isn't that it's going to become a widely used deck - it's that a single deck will literally delay every single round of every single tournament that it participates in past the alloted round length.

I'm not doubting that it's played on occasion. I've also seen a couple of reports online. That hardly is reason for concern. Every major tournament I've ever been at has had matches go past the end of the round anyway. It doesn't matter if there is one more doing so.

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Yu-Gi-Oh! RK3
PM L3
TO L1
Specialist L1

"I volunteer at our local store (when not at premier events) twice a week.  Tuesday night is when we usually have just our experienced players and few if any newbies.  Rounds are timed for 40 minutes, but some nights every round gets done in 25 minutes.  If every round completes that way sometimes I can squeeze in a Top 4 playoff before the store closes as a benefit to the (top) players.

On Saturday I give up nearly my entire day at the store.  We have many more people and many newbies....Rounds range from 30 minutes to 40+, but we know we will have a Top 8 playoff, so it takes as long as it takes.

Now if every single round of both Tuesday and Saturday nights took 40+ minutes because of the Self-Destruct player, I'd be encouraging the Self-Destruct player to pick a different deck, especially if they were not Top 8-ing....They would be needlessly slowing down the tournament in my opinion.

I am all for players playing non-Tier 1 decks, but this one deck seems like an exception.

We could solve this entire problem (except perhaps in traditional format) by banning the Self-Destruction Button card"

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree

Whether the player top 8s or not has no bearing on anything here.

Every player has the right to play their deck as they see fit, so long as they do not violate tournament policies, which this player does not.

The fact that you get some rounds completed in 25 minutes is a bonus, not the expectation. You should be assuming that it will take 50 minutes per round throughout the tournament.

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Player Management 1
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I personally enjoy playing "tricky" and "unconventional" decks. "Level Limit Area B" is a favorite, along with Stumbling. They're legal, and by themselves provide no win-solution or formula.

However, I do have other cards that play off of these and make a more formidable deck when taken as a whole.

Now for an inexperienced or new player, the "Self Destruct" may seem like an original method of agrivating his/her peers. But it's still a legal deck.

As stated previously, this decky is legal. Yes, it's frustrating, but can easily be overcome with sudden death.

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Ken Maness
Pflugerville, Tx
RK 2 YGO, PM2, Specialist 2, TO 1

Seems simple enough.  Allow him to play the deck (since we have no choice) but keep an eye out for slow play.  If his intent is to be malicious to the flow of the event than he'll certainly be playing more slowly which IS something that we can do about. 

P-18 Procedural Error—Slow Play (Penalty: Warning)

This penalty is appropriate when a player unintentionally causes a minor delay of the game. Players are responsible for playing at an efficient pace regardless of the complexity of the situation in the game or the number of decisions that have to be made.

Slow play is a penalty that in my opinion is NOT given out enough.

If you feel he's not keeping a good pace of the game smack a slow play penalty down.  This penalty can and should be upgraded for multiple offenses.

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Alex Evans
Unity Entertainment
Event Manager

1115274:

Slow play is a penalty that in my opinion is NOT given out enough.

Quoted for emphasis.

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Franklin Debrito
Player Management Lv4 / Yu-Gi-Oh! Lv3
VS System Lv1 / Specialist Lv2
World of Warcraft Lv1 / Tournament Organizer Lv1
UD Forums Moderator

1587995:

Please use the search function on the website prior to posting some questions.  This one has been recently answered.

Oh I'm sorry. o.O I've posted this here in Yu-Gi-Oh! Rules (official judge list). I have not seen the PM Forums.

Some Judges means that the player, who play the Button should be disqualified immediately because he stalling with his actions. I don't think so. Therefore I've posted in this forums.

Thanks to every one for your answers. :)



yomifrog

i have seen this deck in play 2 times at our regionals and both times i was loling though the event. the deck isnt slow play guys the player is just tying until time NOT STALLING until time. now if time was called and there still tying this can lead to a DQ for delaying the event. but if time isnt called there isnt anything that is in UDE guidelines to stop it :)


Enjoy the tying and the game :)

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