Okay i have Doshura out in play with 1 damage he has form of the serpent out with 2 counter on it. He declares attack on my hero and i protect with Doshura. My opponent thinks that he can blow his New 3rd counter before Doshura can protect his attack and still hit my hero.

I believe that in order to hit my hero you first need to kill Doshura before you declare your attack on my hero. Since he has 2 counter and needs a 3rd before he can kill him and since he has to declare an attack to obtain the 3rd damage counter i can still assign my protector before he can ping him to death.

Next, if he can ping him to death before protection point does the damage from the previous 3 still present during damange calcualtion at the end of combat?

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70 Blood Elf Paladin - Ret Spec
60 Human Paladin - Holy Spec
70 Human Rogue - Combat Spec
66 Undead Warrior - Arms spec

When you attack whilst controlling Form of the Serpent, its effect triggers in the attack window, after the attacker exhausts and before the protect point. when the trigger resolves, it adds a counter to the form, then creates a static modifier until the end of the combat giving you hero +X attack, where X is the counters on Form of the Serpent. This attack value remains the same even if you remove the counters after it resolves.

So, you could then remove the 3 counters to kill Doshura before the protect point. They could still use another protector, but Doshura would be destroyed.

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"What if Zombie Lincoln wants to make a Mecha Markoff to lead his zombie Ninja bikers?!?!"

The Official WoW TCG Forums Cross-Dressing Englishman From Hawaii

This is a tricky question, partly because it depends on each player's understanding of the exact steps of combat.

To try and simplify, there's several "priority windows" that open during combat, and each player has a chance to play things to affect combat.  First, you propose combat: no characters are exhausted yet, but you say what you're attacking with and what you're attacking.  This proposal effect is added to the chain, and when it resolves, if the attacking and defending characters are still legal, the proposed attacker exhausts, becomes an attacker, and begins combat.

After this, a priority window called the Attack Window opens.  Again, both players can play powers or cards to affect combat.  After this window closes, we reach the Protect Point, which is where your opponent can exhaust a character to protect and become the defender.  This doesn't use the chain, and cannot be responded to until the character is exhausted.  After this there is another priority window (the Defend Window), then combat damage is dealt, and the turn player's main priority window opens again.

Now, on to your specific example.  Your Form of the Serpent will get a counter when the Attack Window opens, and you can remove the counters to kill a potential protector.  However, if you elect to do nothing, your opponent can protect with an ally.  If you kill that ally your hero is still attacking that ally and not the opposing hero.  If you want to avoid your opponent protecting against your hero, you'll have to kill off Doshura before he protects.

However, keep in mind that your opponent can't "rush" to the protect point to keep you from killing his ally.  If he says his ally is protecting immediately after you declare your attack, you can force him to "back up" so you can play more effects before reaching the protect point.  If this is the case, your opponent can then declare a different ally as a protector.  However, if you declare your attack and then ask your opponent if he's going to protect, or similarly display that you aren't going to use your ability's power, you have lost your opportunity to kill the opposing ally before he protects.  You can still use Form of the Serpent to kill him before combat damage is dealt, but your hero will then deal no combat damage.

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WoW characters:
Jadorel, 70 Night Elf Druid, 44/0/17 spec, Agamaggan server; raiding character.
Sethala, 55 Blood Elf Mage, 5/41/0 spec, Rivendare server; PvP character.

To simplify:

Combat Proposal (Effects that say "target can't attack" must be played here to stop the combat)
--Combat Step begins--(Attacker must exhaust as the combat step starts)
Attack window (When [something] attacks triggers are placed here)
Protect point (Defending player may choose a protector. Protecting does not use the chain and no one gets priority)
Defend window (This is the only place that a hero can strike with a weapon. The attacker and defender are now "in combat")
Combat conclusion (Combat damage is dealt. This does not utilize the chain)
--Combat Step ends--

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"What if Zombie Lincoln wants to make a Mecha Markoff to lead his zombie Ninja bikers?!?!"

The Official WoW TCG Forums Cross-Dressing Englishman From Hawaii

When the triggered power of Form of the Servant resolves, it locks in the ATK bonus on your hero. If you have 2 poison counters on Form of the Servant and attack, the triggered effect will resolve, adding a third poison counter and giving your hero +3 ATK for that combat. If you then remove the counters during combat, after the effect has resolved, your hero will retain the +3 ATK for the remainder of combat.

In the scenario presented by the OP, the hero could attack the opposing hero, gaining a third counter and adding +3 ATK to his hero, use the payment power during the attack window to kill Doshura before the protect point, and still have 3 ATK when combat resolves.

Hope this helps!

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Larry Hortick

UDE Specializations:
World of Warcraft Rules - Level 2
Specialist - Level 2
Tournament Organizer - Level 1
Player Management - Level 1

And I've judged a ton of Minis tournaments too. :)

1148207:

This is a tricky question, partly because it depends on each player's understanding of the exact steps of combat.

To try and simplify, there's several "priority windows" that open during combat, and each player has a chance to play things to affect combat.  First, you propose combat: no characters are exhausted yet, but you say what you're attacking with and what you're attacking.  This proposal effect is added to the chain, and when it resolves, if the attacking and defending characters are still legal, the proposed attacker exhausts, becomes an attacker, and begins combat.

After this, a priority window called the Attack Window opens.  Again, both players can play powers or cards to affect combat.  After this window closes, we reach the Protect Point, which is where your opponent can exhaust a character to protect and become the defender.  This doesn't use the chain, and cannot be responded to until the character is exhausted.  After this there is another priority window (the Defend Window), then combat damage is dealt, and the turn player's main priority window opens again.

Now, on to your specific example.  Your Form of the Serpent will get a counter when the Attack Window opens, and you can remove the counters to kill a potential protector.  However, if you elect to do nothing, your opponent can protect with an ally.  If you kill that ally your hero is still attacking that ally and not the opposing hero.  If you want to avoid your opponent protecting against your hero, you'll have to kill off Doshura before he protects.

However, keep in mind that your opponent can't "rush" to the protect point to keep you from killing his ally.  If he says his ally is protecting immediately after you declare your attack, you can force him to "back up" so you can play more effects before reaching the protect point.  If this is the case, your opponent can then declare a different ally as a protector.  However, if you declare your attack and then ask your opponent if he's going to protect, or similarly display that you aren't going to use your ability's power, you have lost your opportunity to kill the opposing ally before he protects.  You can still use Form of the Serpent to kill him before combat damage is dealt, but your hero will then deal no combat damage.

This. very good post

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