It's been a while since I wrote an essay up on here but I think this one deserves it.

Now, I have a limited understanding of how tournament events are tiered. I know that there are Premier Event and such, but I was under the impression that most National markets in the EU are treated equally, despite the majority of product sales coming from US warehouses and as such being treated as US sales. My grief however is with the two tier environment.

This is not me trying to justify that the UK Nationals should have a similar 'payout' to the Continental Championships: we won't have 450+ players in attendance at the biggest games convention this year so we shouldn't have Top 64 Itouchs. I'm not even grieved that the Top 8 don't get the same loot card pay-out (which is weird considering that they're not really a sponsor prize), or even a solitary Tiger. My grief is that there are several tiers to National/Continental Championships and that this sends out mixed messages.

For example, I really don't understand why only the Top 8 of a 'tier two' location qualify for the World Championships. The way I have always seen it (and how it was seen at various EU Nationals last year for the countries that had them) was that the Top 8 was the cash cow but the Top 16 the event cow, meaning that a Top 16 birth meant you could opt to play in the World Championships without slacking into it via the Honor Ranking. I'm talking from experiance here as I finished 17th at the UK Nationals last year (same score as 15th/16th and having beaten both in the Swiss, but that's MANTIS for you), so I went to San Diego on my rather ridiculous honor ranking. My reward for playing in nearly 1/3 of all UK regionals last year and making somebody's numbers look good.

Everyone seemed to be expecting the same again this year, and why not? Our community has grown thanks to an incredible effort from our TO and also a certain forum. We had more players at our Realm Championship than any other event in Europe with nearly everyone in the UK Community attending in some capacity, as such we had a higher attendence for it than our Nationals (including side events). Our playerbase is constantly growing and we're looking to break into the 100 attendence mark at the next Realm Championship which should be entirely achievable.

Which is why I was rather surprised and saddened to see that this year not only was it Top 8 only, but that our 'market' had been given a tier. Woohay. I'm not sure who make's these decisions, but I'd like an explanation of sorts on several points:

i) What is a Tier 2 market? What are the community and prize support differences between say a Tier 1 market and a Tier 2?

ii) Why does tiering even exist?

iii) What is the liklihood that a US Nat's 07 is pulled and that ala Top 50-75 we get a Top 8-16?


The entire thing seems silly to me. I fully understand the difference in electronic/gift voucher prize support. I've never understood the cold shoulder when it comes to differences for in-house prizes (eas/playmats/deckboxes/loots etc) and community support, and it is very disappointing.

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Jack Fejer - Lord Moneybags

AIM - JCFejer

Zapped Giants - UK Community Site

The tiers probably have to do with the amount of people showing up.  Since there are so many countries in Europe, there will be a lot of variance in numbers. Germany and France are probably the Tier 1 events.  To get to be Tier 1, you would probably have to rival them in attendance. 

And as far as I know, the prizes for EU Nationals are set by UDE EU.  If ya'll would adopt the Continental Championship format, the prizes could probably be just as good as North America (and it would also make the Player of the Year points for these events more fair, but that is a different discussion entirely).

Prizes aren't the big issue and it's old news that France and Germany (both bigger gaming nations) have a larger playerbase although without checking the stats I'm pretty sure our Realm Championship had a higher attendence than North and South France combined. I just don't know why you would lower support from one year to the next, specifically the qualifying spots for Worlds. That just seems silly and a real slap in the face.

The Tiering system is going to be a part of UDE US's decision making as well, if not it should be. No passing of the buck, that's been done enough and it's getting pretty tiresome.

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Jack Fejer - Lord Moneybags

AIM - JCFejer

Zapped Giants - UK Community Site

Edit: I was wrong, Germany does have a better support then UK... They just look the same at the first second.


The prize structure for UK and Germany is exactly the same.

In the MMO the higher the tier the better the stuff is. That means tier 2 prize support is probably better then other support.

Several price sturctures in Europe are:

Germany (Tier 3?)
Winner: DELL Laptop + X-51 Nether-Rocket + Ethereal Plunderer + Trophy
2nd: Playstation 3 + X-51 Nether-Rocket + Ethereal Plunderer
3rd - 4th: I-pod touch 8Gb + Personal Weather Maker
5th - 8th: Portable DVD Player + Robotic Homing Chicken
9th - 16th: I-pod shuffle 2Gb + Paper Airplane
Top 8 receives an invite for Worlds
Top 32: Marksman Glous
Participation: Lady Vashj

 UK (Tier 2)
Winner: DELL Laptop + X-51 Nether-Rocket + Ethereal Plunderer + Trophy
2nd: Playstation 3 + X-51 Nether-Rocket + Ethereal Plunderer
3rd - 4th: I-pod touch 8Gb + Personal Weather Maker
5th - 8th: Portable DVD Player + Robotic Homing Chicken
9th – 16th: Paper Airplane
Top 8 receives an invite for Worlds
Top 32: Marksman Glous
Participation: Lady Vashj

Austria (Tier 1?)
Winner: Playstation 3 + X-51 Nether-Rocket + Ethereal Plunderer + Trophy
2nd: I-pod touch 8Gb + Personal Weather Maker
3rd - 4th: Portable DVD Player + Robotic Homing Chicken
5th - 8th: I-pod shuffle 2Gb + Paper Airplane
Top 8 receives an invite for Worlds
Top 16: Marksman Glous
Participation: Lady Vashj

Switzerland (Tier 0?)
Winner: I-pod touch 8Gb + X-51 Nether-Rocket + Ethereal Plunderer + Trophy
2nd: Portable DVD Player + Personal Weather Maker
3rd - 4th: I-pod shuffle 2Gb + Robotic Homing Chicken
5th – 8th: Paper Airplane
Top 4 receives an invite for Worlds
Top 8: Marksman Glous
Participation: Lady Vashj

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WoW Rules Knowledge Level 2
Player Management Level 2

Ah, this makes things a lot easier to analyze. Why the hell does Germany have 8 invites?

Paris is going to be a massive success at this rate.

Germany is Tier 1, the difference is the ipods.

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Jack Fejer - Lord Moneybags

AIM - JCFejer

Zapped Giants - UK Community Site

Maybe if you had a Euro Championship like all US+Canada does then your prizes would be better.

How many Nats are you having? How many invites will there be counting all the Nats? How many total rocket mounts, IPods, and what not are being given out between all the Euro Nationals combined?

Maybe it still comes out unbalanced I dunno since that list posted above is the only info I have seen about Euro Nats.

If you had one Europe Championship it sounds like allot of headaches would go away.

I have no major bone with the prizes except the in house stuff (such as loot cards), because let's face it they cost UDE virtually nothing but really push the game home in the given market. I make that clear at the end of the first post.

There are less invites across all of europe than last year, and worlds is now being held in europe where less people can "honor sack" into the event. It just seems like a really strange decision to take.

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Jack Fejer - Lord Moneybags

AIM - JCFejer

Zapped Giants - UK Community Site

I'd just like to thank Jack for bringing this up as I really don't think it is fair for reasons that have been stated. Why should the continent hosting Worlds get less invites than usual?

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Aloha!

The Official WoW TCG Forums Cross-Dressing Englishman From Hawaii

You're getting lots of Nationals in Europe instead of having a single Continentals for all of Europe, right?

Shouldn't the Continentals prizes be better than Nationals prizes?

Cheers.

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Man Utd to retain the Premiership!!
Latest result: Blackburn 0 Man Utd 2
My most recent High Level result: Indy DMF 5-3, 44th

As has been stated, its not the prize structure that people are particularly annoyed over, its the limited qualification places for Worlds.

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Aloha!

The Official WoW TCG Forums Cross-Dressing Englishman From Hawaii

I can not understand two business decisions from UDE here.

Why limit loot card support in Europe?  It actually costs the company very little in finanial terms but can be a big cash cow and therefore 'pull' factor for player attendance.  This in turn creates more money for the company as more cards are bought for constructed decks.  More cards used in drafts at Nationals due to higher attendance.

Secondly, why reduce European Worlds invites to the top 8 when last year it was top 16?  The worlds are in Europe and Europeans are more likely to make the journey to Paris.  Again, costs UDE nothing, encourages more players to attend Nats and of course more attend worlds.  Again, ultimately the company again makes more money.

Now obviously I am a player (european) and I am biased but from a purely business point of view someone somewhere in UDE has a lot of answers to provide that quite frankly dont add up at the moment.  'Lets reduce loot prize support, lets reduce world invites and lets upset the player base.' 

Quality decision making process there.

So come on UDE, please comment...

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Leonardas
Team Scoop
We have already given up!
Leonardas@Zappedgiants.com

OK, I didn't realize that the Top 16 got invites last year. I agree. Top 8 seems a bit low.

Cheers.

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Man Utd to retain the Premiership!!
Latest result: Blackburn 0 Man Utd 2
My most recent High Level result: Indy DMF 5-3, 44th

fully agree,,, it should be top16...

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honor lvl 7 ;)

I do not think just because they did something last year you can expect them to do it this year. For example last year they did not give out loot cards which is essentially cash in the ebay bank.

Would be interested in comparing the total Europe invites vs the total Canada/US invites and comparing the number against total players for each. Someone with time could come up with numbers worth talking about but who decides what qualifies may be an argument that goes on forever. If Euro players are getting the shaft then I am all on that bandwagon for getting Euro Players more invites.

Do tournament invites mean anything or they just as good as honor invites like last year?

Personally if I was UDE manager and this was my game I would rather people qualify through honor because it means they supported my product over a course of time.

You give out some invites to winners to make the elite players happy to have accomplished goals and you give out honor invites to people who support the product and ensure their is a Worlds Championship to even have at the end of the year.

1753131:

I do not think just because they did something last year you can expect them to do it this year.

When you set a precedent, even a low precedent such as Nationals' tournament structures, you should be expected to meet it the following years. You are giving out less invites this year than last year, fact even for North America (91 from Nationals tournaments last year after 25 were added to the US nats, now 75). There is no reason to need to do that unless you like low turn-out tournaments when your biggest rival is holding a free to turn-up and play at Grand Prix the same weekend in the same city.

When you give one Top 8 all three big loot cards, given their unique nature it isn't asking much that this is replicated across the world even if just for the Top 2/4. I don't want a MacBook, I don't want a $2,000 gift certificate or Itouches for the Top 64. I'd like them to ask the printers to roll off an extra sheet of loot cards, costs them bugger all and is fantastic marketing. What I would do is something more like this:

Winner: DELL Laptop + X-51 Nether-Rocket + Ethereal Plunderer + Spectral Tiger + Flight/Hotel + Trophy (added Flight/Hotel + Spectral Tiger)
2nd: Playstation 3 + X-51 Nether-Rocket + Ethereal Plunderer + Spectral Tiger (added Spectral Tiger)
3rd - 4th: I-pod touch 8Gb + Nether Rocket + Ethereal Plunderer (Rocket + Plunderer replace Personal Weather Machine)
5th - 8th: Portable DVD Player + Ethereal Plunderer (Plunderer replacRobotic Chicken)
9th – 16th: Paper Airplane

Top 16 qualify for the 2008 World Championships (+ 8 places)

And then the usual boosters/tournament packs/extra copies of EA.

Now, the changes I've made cost UDE pretty much nothing except for the hotel/flight although I only threw that in because it just seems a bit weird to drop that for the winner as well (albeit only a flight last year, but Realm again set the precedent) but look a hell of a lot better and feel better. Now compare that to this: http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/wow/en/organizedplay/tournament/continentals/

Now, I've made no suggestions that people expect or want every electronics good of the past decade in a gift bundle for Top 8. But the US has eight flights paid for with a hotel: none of the EU tournaments do. But loot cards are better than the boosters/playmats of 2007 for sure, and the electronic goods are a step in the right direction (although who really uses portable dvd players nowadays?). Those are welcome improvements. But the cutbacks are just non-sensicle. Adding 8 places? Costs you nothing but looks better on your figures come October if at least four go (liklihood they all do in the UK unless a teacher earns one). The loot cards? Easily done to, get's people very excited.

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Jack Fejer - Lord Moneybags

AIM - JCFejer

Zapped Giants - UK Community Site