I don't think we've had an official answer to this question yet:

Can a hero Cleave with empty hands?

The text of Cleave says: Your hero deals X melee damage to each of up to two target allies, where X is 1 plus the ATK of one of your Melee weapons.

Some people here think that you can Cleave without a weapon, but I don't understand the card text this way. If you could Cleave with Nothing, that would mean that Nothing is a Melee weapon with ATK 0. Likewise Nothing would be a Ranged weapon with ATK 0 or a Two-Handed Weapon with ATK 0. I really don't think that Nothing is supposed to be that powerful. I'd like an official confirmation that when a card refers to "Something with numeric value X" the card cannot be played if there is not actually such a Something on the field. Put another way, I'd like confirmation that "Nothing" is never the same as "Something with numeric value 0".

Confused? ;-)

We had an official answer, that you can cleave 1-2 allies for 1 damage each, when you have no weapon equipped.

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The above answer is straight to the point, but I feel it may not resolve your confusion.  It seems you are interpreting Cleave as dealing weapon damage plus one, when in fact it is exactly opposite, one plus weapon damage.  To put it (marginally) in WoW MMO terms, your warrior is using this ability to hit two enemies.  While he could slice up two quillboars with an axe, he is also able to use the ability with his plain old fists, just for less damage.  You aren't attacking with a non-existent zero power weapon, you are using an ability that happens to get better with a weapon.

Only that in WoW MMO, Cleave requires a melee weapon. Might get confusing for some hardcore wow warriors ;)

1114935:

I don't think we've had an official answer to this question yet:

Can a hero Cleave with empty hands?

The text of Cleave says: Your hero deals X melee damage to each of up to two target allies, where X is 1 plus the ATK of one of your Melee weapons.

Hi All,

At its heart, Cleave says "Your hero deals X melee damage to each of up to two target allies".

How do you calculate X? Well, you start with 1, then you can choose a Melee weapon you control and add its ATK. No Melee weapon to choose? Then X=1.

If Cleave was restricted to being played "only if you control a Melee weapon" then that would be spelled out.

Thanks,
PR

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paul_ross@upperdeck.com
UDE TCG Rules

900176:

Only that in WoW MMO, Cleave requires a melee weapon. Might get confusing for some hardcore wow warriors ;)

Keep in mind that a lot of other abilties represented in the card game, such as Gouge and Execute, also require a melee weapon in the MMO, but don't in the TCG. I think it would be a bit imbalanced if they did because of the costs associated with even bringing a melee weapon into play, one of those costs being luck. It would be unfortunate to the Warrior or Rogue that drew a full hand of abilities while all of his weapons rested at the bottom of his draw deck. Since the classes don't start the game with a weapon the same way they do in the MMO, a more balanced approach had to be taken.

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Agreed.

1120110:

1114935:

I don't think we've had an official answer to this question yet:

Can a hero Cleave with empty hands?

The text of Cleave says: Your hero deals X melee damage to each of up to two target allies, where X is 1 plus the ATK of one of your Melee weapons.

Hi All,

At its heart, Cleave says "Your hero deals X melee damage to each of up to two target allies".

How do you calculate X? Well, you start with 1, then you can choose a Melee weapon you control and add its ATK. No Melee weapon to choose? Then X=1.

If Cleave was restricted to being played "only if you control a Melee weapon" then that would be spelled out.

Thanks,
PR

This is true, but it does seem strange to "cleave" something (or someone) with your fists. ;)

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-Joneleth

Daiden Quezul
70 Paladin, Burning Blade

1114141:

1120110:

1114935:

I don't think we've had an official answer to this question yet:

Can a hero Cleave with empty hands?

The text of Cleave says: Your hero deals X melee damage to each of up to two target allies, where X is 1 plus the ATK of one of your Melee weapons.

Hi All,

At its heart, Cleave says "Your hero deals X melee damage to each of up to two target allies".

How do you calculate X? Well, you start with 1, then you can choose a Melee weapon you control and add its ATK. No Melee weapon to choose? Then X=1.

If Cleave was restricted to being played "only if you control a Melee weapon" then that would be spelled out.

Thanks,
PR

This is true, but it does seem strange to "cleave" something (or someone) with your fists. ;)

Maybe you have really long nails?

1120110:

If Cleave was restricted to being played "only if you control a Melee weapon" then that would be spelled out.

So is this a general rule that if a card refers to a numeric value of Something (e.g. ATK value of card, number of cards of some type,....) and there is no such Something, then I can always use that card with a value of 0, unless the card specifically says that it can only be used when Something is present?

Hi All,
At its heart, Cleave says "Your hero deals X melee damage to each of up to two target allies".
How do you calculate X? Well, you start with 1, then you can choose a Melee weapon you control and add its ATK. No Melee weapon to choose? Then X=1.
If Cleave was restricted to being played "only if you control a Melee weapon" then that would be spelled out.
Thanks, PR

Back to the question: Is "nothing" "something" ?

104.2 ... Undefined values that would be numeric are treated as zero.

709.2c ... If some of the link is impossible to perform, only as much as possible is performed.

Which of the rules is applied ?

1371237:

Hi All,
At its heart, Cleave says "Your hero deals X melee damage to each of up to two target allies".
How do you calculate X? Well, you start with 1, then you can choose a Melee weapon you control and add its ATK. No Melee weapon to choose? Then X=1.
If Cleave was restricted to being played "only if you control a Melee weapon" then that would be spelled out.
Thanks, PR

Back to the question: Is "nothing" "something" ?

104.2 ... Undefined values that would be numeric are treated as zero.

709.2c ... If some of the link is impossible to perform, only as much as possible is performed.

Which of the rules is applied ?

Both?  I'm honestly trying to figure out what you are getting at here.  With Cleave, the weapon is not required, if you don't choose a weapon when Cleave resolves, then the X = 1 (1 + ATK of a chosen weapon).

This is a post from months ago, thread necromancy = bad.

1371237:

Back to the question: Is "nothing" "something" ?

104.2 ... Undefined values that would be numeric are treated as zero.

709.2c ... If some of the link is impossible to perform, only as much as possible is performed.

Which of the rules is applied ?

Neither. If you have no weapon, X becomes 1 as per the card instructions. There is no part that is impossible to perform.

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Kingdom of Karr, Part 1-2 (weekly story + Stormwind Test Video)

OK so we have 4 different answers for the no weapon case.

both , the first , the second , neither. ^^

If it is the first, so X=1+0. If it is the second, so X=1. (to add the ATK of the no weaon would be impossible to perform and so it stops at X=1).

I want to know this to get a better rules knowledge.

 

It's 1 + the ATK value of your weapon when Cleave resolves.

If there is no weapon, then the ATK of your weapon = 0.  Hence, 'nothing' is defined as zero, as previously stated in this thread.

So....

1 + 0 = 1

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Simon Key

Player Management Level 4
WoW TCG Rules Knowledge Level 2
WoW Minis Rules Knowledge Level 2
Huntik TCG Rules Knowledge Level 1
Tournament Organizer Level 1