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sayge power ??? o_O;

Last post 10-08-2008, 10:37 PM by jaxtheripper. 10 replies.
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  •  10-07-2008, 7:12 PM 1470367

    sayge power ??? o_O;

    a simple question =P !
    sayge ability works whitout him in play ?? can i play cards removed  by sayge ability even if he ins't in play ??

    sayge = new creep from DMF pack !

  •  10-07-2008, 7:41 PM 1470455 in reply to 1470367

    Re: sayge power ??? o_O;

    Once Sayge's power has resolved and removed the top card of your opponent's deck from the game, the modifier created allows you to play the card regardless of whether or not Sayge is still in play.  You can also play the card any time you could normally play it from your hand, whether it's the turn you use Sayge's power or several turns down the road.

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  •  10-07-2008, 11:10 PM 1470703 in reply to 1470455

    Re: sayge power ??? o_O;

    Why is this true for Sayge but not the card Touch of Chaos?

    Touch of Chaos: When Touch of Chaos enters play, remove all ability cards in your graveyard from the game.  At the start of your turn, choose at random one of the ability cards you removed this way and put it into your hand.

     

    When touch of chaos is destroyed, I STOP receiving ability cards at the start of my turn from my understanding.  This is because the card is no longer in play.  The power that was giving me the ability to receive cards every turn was because the card was in play, written on the card.  Now lets take a look at sayge.  On sayge's power it says "you may play the card this game."   But what if Sayge is gone?  Your saying you can still play that card because the modifier is complete?  Well what about touch of chaos's modifier, did that not complete the second it came out?  Why don't I get to receive a random ability card every turn just because touch of chaos is destroyed, is the modifier not "complete"?

  •  10-07-2008, 11:25 PM 1470713 in reply to 1470703

    Re: sayge power ??? o_O;

    For reference:
    Official Card Reference:
    Sayge, 4 (Darkmoon Faire-2R)
    Ally—Gnoll Fortuneteller, Unique, 4 [Melee] ATK / 4 Health
    At the start of your turn, remove the top card of target opponent's deck from the game. If it's an ability, ally, or equipment card, you may play it this game. (Pay costs as normal.)

    Touch of Chaos, 6, MaPrLo (Dark Portal-284R)
    Weapon—Wand, Wand (1), 1 [Shadow] ATK, 1 Strike
    When Touch of Chaos enters play, remove all ability cards in your graveyard from the game.
    <p> At the start of your turn, choose at random one of the ability cards you removed this way and put it into your hand.

    Sort Answer: They're worded differently.

    Long Answer: Touch of Chaos has two triggered effects; one that triggers when it enters play and another that triggers at the start of your turn.  Triggered effects can be identified by the use of the words "when" or "at". 

    The important thing to note here, is that Touch of Chaos has two different powers, while Sayge only has one power.  Line breaks, noted by "<p>" in the OCR, signify the end of one power and the beginning of another.  As such, we can tell that Touch of Chaos has two triggered power, since a power starting with the word "when" or "at" is always a triggered power.  Triggered powers, by default, only trigger if the card it is on is in play.  Some triggered powers work in other zones, but they will specifically state that they work in another zone, or will not make sense if they don't work in another zone.

    So, Touch of Chaos has the triggered power "At the start of your turn, choose at random one of the ability cards you removed this way and put it into your hand." that will only trigger if Touch of Chaos is in play.

    Sayge also has a triggered power that will only trigger if it is in play.  However, Sayge's power also creates a continuous modifier that allows you to play the card that was removed.  If a duration is not specified when a continuous modifier is created(ie. this turn, until the end of this turn, until the start of your next turn, etc.), then it will last for the remainder of the game.  So, the effect of being able to play that card lasts until that game ends or until the card changes zones(since when a card changes zones it is considered to be a different card).

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  •  10-07-2008, 11:34 PM 1470725 in reply to 1470703

    Re: sayge power ??? o_O;

    2344635:

    Why is this true for Sayge but not the card Touch of Chaos?

    Touch of Chaos: When Touch of Chaos enters play, remove all ability cards in your graveyard from the game.  At the start of your turn, choose at random one of the ability cards you removed this way and put it into your hand.

     

    When touch of chaos is destroyed, I STOP receiving ability cards at the start of my turn from my understanding.  This is because the card is no longer in play.  The power that was giving me the ability to receive cards every turn was because the card was in play, written on the card.  Now lets take a look at sayge.  On sayge's power it says "you may play the card this game."   But what if Sayge is gone?  Your saying you can still play that card because the modifier is complete?  Well what about touch of chaos's modifier, did that not complete the second it came out?  Why don't I get to receive a random ability card every turn just because touch of chaos is destroyed, is the modifier not "complete"?



    Becuase Touch of Chaos doesn't create a modifier like Sayge.  That "you may play it this game" attached to the triggered power is pretty important.  Touch of Chaos needs the "at the start of your turn" to trigger to gain access to the cards removed from the game.  Sayge has no such restriction.

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  •  10-07-2008, 11:51 PM 1470738 in reply to 1470713

    Re: sayge power ??? o_O;

    Sayge also has a triggered power that will only trigger if it is in play.  However, Sayge's power also creates a continuous modifier that allows you to play the card that was removed.  If a duration is not specified when a continuous modifier is created(ie. this turn, until the end of this turn, until the start of your next turn, etc.), then it will last for the remainder of the game.  So, the effect of being able to play that card lasts until that game ends or until the card changes zones(since when a card changes zones it is considered to be a different card).

     

    Ok.  So what exactly is a "continuous modifier."  One thats duration is not stated?  Im inferring from your answer that modifiers that do not specify a time frame last for the "remainder of the game."   So how about Greench's power.  That sure doesnt' specify a time frame.  What about when he dies?  Well common sense says that his power ends, right?  But from what your saying it seems like since there was no specified time frame, Greench's power continues on. 

  •  10-07-2008, 11:56 PM 1470739 in reply to 1470738

    Re: sayge power ??? o_O;

    Sayge does specify how long it lasts, its duration is "this game." 

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  •  10-08-2008, 12:04 AM 1470747 in reply to 1470738

    Re: sayge power ??? o_O;

    I know, but I was referring to BlueRider's comment of "If a duration is not specified when a continuous modifier is created then it will last for the remainder of the game."  A lot of powers don't specify an end point.  Bladebender has "cant strike with weapons" with no specified time.  Of course its given that when he dies his power doesn't affect the game anymore.  But that would contradict bluerider's comment.  Which led me to ask what exactly a "continuous modifier" is.

     

    Not trying to be picky but this game is way too freaking confusing.

  •  10-08-2008, 12:14 AM 1470753 in reply to 1470747

    Re: sayge power ??? o_O;

    2344635:

    I know, but I was referring to BlueRider's comment of "If a duration is not specified when a continuous modifier is created then it will last for the remainder of the game."  A lot of powers don't specify an end point.  Bladebender has "cant strike with weapons" with no specified time.  Of course its given that when he dies his power doesn't affect the game anymore.  But that would contradict bluerider's comment.  Which led me to ask what exactly a "continuous modifier" is.

     

    Not trying to be picky but this game is way too freaking confusing.



    There are two types of Continuous Modifiers, Definite and Indefinite.  Greench creates an Indefinte Modifer as outlined below:

    714.2 An indefinite modifier is generated by a card’s indefinite power (704.1a). It has no specified duration and lasts until the game ends, or until that card is no longer in the appropriate zone with the appropriate power. Such a modifier always uses information from the current game state.

    Sayge's Triggered power generates a Definite Modifier outlined here:

    714.3 A definite modifier is created by a definite power (704.1b) or a resolving link (709). It usually has a specified duration. If no duration is specified, such a modifier lasts until the game ends.

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  •  10-08-2008, 10:23 AM 1470978 in reply to 1470739

    Re: sayge power ??? o_O;

    Sayge does specify how long it lasts, its duration is "this game."
    Yeah, I was tired.

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  •  10-08-2008, 10:37 PM 1472150 in reply to 1470978

    Re: sayge power ??? o_O;

    Sayge's power is similar to: at the start of you turn, draw a card from your opponents deck but do not but it in you hand. keep it face up out of play. This new hand can't have a max hand size and is not affected/used by cards that reference your hand (akama's promise for example). You can play these cards with normal cost.
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