I like the Dreamblade method, personally, with the EXCEPTION of when a player's effects (such as Kael'Thas, Cornered) that he did not vocalize reduce the number of dice rolled; then I think a total reroll would be most fair, and, since putting in exceptions to the penalties accrued for rolling too many dice would be unnecessarily complex, I'll take the rules as they stand.  /shrug

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"And I thought my jokes were bad!"
Proof of my insanity: here and here.

How about the other method I mentionned: keep the full rerolls but allow the opponent to choose to keep the roll as is?

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"The beatings will continue until morale has improved."
- Standard corporate management technique

2160844:

How about the other method I mentionned: keep the full rerolls but allow the opponent to choose to keep the roll as is?

I'd rather keep the standard and currently accepted practice of PE-Minor (Too Many Dice) penalty as an official Warning to players who repeatedly flub and forget they have a Weakness curse or some similar effect affecting their character(s). 

See, for a major event, the warnings will add up, no matter what the final count ends up being before a Match Loss is assigned, so forcing the correct roll upon the offending player is a way to encourage correct play with a shallow enough penalty that it isnt detrimental but one that can dig you into a deep enough hole for you to bury yourself in.

Over the course of the weekend, a LOT of players picked up Minor Warnings for Procedural Errors.  Hmm. You know, I might just hang out on VASSAL overseeing games to chime in when I see those kinds of things. Since people use VASSAL for some stages of testing, maybe we can beat it into players heads that proper procedures are at all times to be followed at a DMF--if not specifically at Local Battlegrounds.

I'll definitely be asking the right people the hard questions on what the Philosophy of Penalties shall be with Minis.  Game Loss automatically upgrading to Match Loss? That's harsh dude, so I hope we find a fair and balanced system for keeping games moving smoothely and players proceeding properly.

My personal philosophy is always to err on the side of the players if I suspect genuine untentional infractions, but holy freaking hot damn and a half, batman, I have no qualms about cracking down like Phadalus's Lightning Bolt if I suspect malicious cheating--like dice manipulation.  I think all judges have agreed on that part so far--that if we suspect cheating, the Hand of Ragnaros comes down. I just...I don't know. That was my first DMF, and so far as I know, no one was (caught) cheating.  Well played, everyone.

Cheers!

-teh Sig

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Christopher "Siggie teh Sig" Nugent
Find me on facebook with liiamealone @ yahoo dot com
email me at teh_Sig @yahoo dot com

Game loss as match loss was also how it worked in Dreamblade until they made a change. I think UDE's system wouldn't be able to do this, but basically since in the DCI a match win is 3 points (a loss AND draw in Dreamblade were 0 points), the penalty for *game* loss was replaced by a -1 in the points. This is actually sometimes harsher than a match loss, since if you lose you're at -1 instead of 0...

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"The beatings will continue until morale has improved."
- Standard corporate management technique

I was under the impression from listening to my locals that if a player rolls too many dice, then a reroll is expected with the caveat that a player cannot get more successes on the replacement roll - i.e. Player rolls 6 dice instead of 5 and gets 3 successes. On the reroll of 5 dice Player rolls 4 successes, but only gets credit for 3.

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www.ccgscards.com

CCGs Cards Comics and Games, in Pittsburgh, PA - home to Pat Eshghy, DMF Boston Champion!

We may lack concrete resolution to the concept of rolling too many dice on how to handle it, but doing so is a procedural error, punishable with a minor warning.  Most on the judges forum agreed that too many dice constituted a full reroll, regardless of the previous or resulting total. That a warning gets issued serves as deterrent enough, in my view, to dissuade players from intentionally trying to roll too many dice. But, after the reroll, someone said you can't have more successes than you did the with the incorrect dice?  Er...what then is the point of the reroll?

How Head Judges rule to handle these issues on a local level is directly up to such judges.  At DMFs San Francisco and Charlotte, the rule was too many dice meant a reroll and a warning.   Only two players all weekend rolled too many dice more than once at Charlotte, and I don't believe either player did so intentionally.

Overall, I don't know what the match slips look like after a TCG event, but holy cow. I was hoping for some real practical, hands-on experience with Player Management from this event to help me prepare for PM2, but honestly? There were so few issues beyond too many dice and guys not showing up within ten minutes that I didn't get much of any experience with the PM aspect of the event.  Ah well.  I just like that the minis players are quite informal.  I didn't see everything, but I never saw two guys who couldn't shake hands after a match. Great, no, FANTASTIC sportsmanship all around with the minis players I met.

Oh...and for any minis players still reading this, STOP GRUNTING.  Actually talk out loud and make sure your opponent can HEAR what you're doing.   They said this at the start of the weekend, but I have to repeat for effect, minis more than any other game many of us may play is so dependent upon communication.  Specifically, in many other games, you can typically just tap your resources, pull a card from your hand and tap it against your target, effectively communicating exactly what you're doing and who your target is without ever uttering a syllable.  Not possible with minis, not so much.

Cheers!

-teh Sig

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Christopher "Siggie teh Sig" Nugent
Find me on facebook with liiamealone @ yahoo dot com
email me at teh_Sig @yahoo dot com

2160844:

With regard extra dice rolls: the Dreamblade penalty for extra dice involved the opponent choosing which of the dice were 'extras'. Meaning it would usually get rid of your high damage rolls or blades (equivalent more or less to crits here). That was a pretty good incentive not to roll too many dice. As it is, I don't think a reroll is appropriate (or at least the opponent should have the choice to accept the roll as is, i.e. if the other guy whiffed).

I love this method. I think UDE should really be considering this as the policy.

 I have had the ReRoll option punish me and benefit my opponent, after he made the mistake, too many times. And not just from a single opponent making the mistake.

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I roll at: