1511318:

How does Kil'zen rush take 4th place?  Not an indictment on the player, but seriously, the deck auto-looses to so many control decks in block.

I lost to McArthur and Markoff's priest control decks but beat two other priest control decks. It's an incredibly tight matchup though.

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West Brom for the Premiership
Latest Result: WBA 0 Chelsea 3
2nd highest-ranked Limited player in Northwest Brooklyn
#2 Lifetime Honor scrub (#1 in '08!)
Lifetime Regional/RCQ match record: 88-64 (57.9%)

1511318:

How does Kil'zen rush take 4th place?  Not an indictment on the player, but seriously, the deck auto-looses to so many control decks in block.

-Jeff-

o'rly? When Jimmy played vs me he was on a 13-0 sanctioned match run with his list (11-0 at DMF, and 2-0 in the tourney). I won by the skin of my teeth.

  I don't think it's the best deck in the format, and I think it has several bad matchups vs certain decks, but to say it "auto-loses" to so many control decks makes me think your piloting kil'zin suboptimally =/  (it certainly doesnt scoop to control priest, which was the biggest deck at the tourney)  ... Jimmy's record with the deck backs my point up.

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boo

Ya'rly!  Who said I was talking about priest?  (although it is one to consider if built properly)  And, I pilot Kil'zen just fine, thanks. :)

-Jeff-

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WOW. TCG. SCRUB.
Go ahead, give it a try, everybody's doing it.

Toolbox of Terror; killing you softly every Tuesdays.

1511318:

Ya'rly!  Who said I was talking about priest?  (although it is one to consider if built properly)  And, I pilot Kil'zen just fine, thanks. :)

-Jeff-

If you actually knew what you were talking about, you would know that Kil'zin doesn't "auto-lose" to anything.

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Arsenal for the Premiership!

If you actually knew what you were talking about, you would know that Kil'zin doesn't "auto-lose" to anything.

Listen, I'm not trying to insult anyone here I'm just surprised Kil'zen rush finished so high in such a competitive tournament.  Whether players want to believe it or not, there are a handful of decks that beat Kil'zen rush pretty consistently.  (McArthur's build in particular)  Why people have such a hard time believing this is beyond me.

-Jeff-

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WOW. TCG. SCRUB.
Go ahead, give it a try, everybody's doing it.

Toolbox of Terror; killing you softly every Tuesdays.

1511318:

 Whether players want to believe it or not, there are a handful of decks that beat Kil'zen rush pretty consistently. 

-Jeff-

It's that your original statement was much stronger than that.  But yeah, I agree: armor-up.deck and druid control both beat kilzin pretty consistently.  There were no armor warriors in the tourney, jimmy dodged the two druid controls (bodimer and andy farrell), so he had winnable matchups vs all his opponents.

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boo

Fair enough, but you have to consider that Kil'zin will always have the ability to just go nuts and win in a lot of situations that it shouldn't win.  Especially when it is piloted by a player like Jimmy who has done lots of testing with the deck.

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Arsenal for the Premiership!

The odds of a Kil'zin deck doing very well at a 4 (?) round tournament even in a field of unfavorable matchups is rather high.

Relax Jeff. It's just a realms qualifier. Do you seriously believe Markoff would be playing a non-warlock deck at a bigger event?

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1284658:

The odds of a Kil'zin deck doing very well at a 4 (?) round tournament even in a field of unfavorable matchups is rather high.

I disagree with the odds statement, especially if you assume that higher level players will have tested against Kil'zen rush and probably would find the decks that consistently beat it.  (I believe Markoff mentioned that the average player rank was 2900 at this tourament?) Perhaps "auto-loss" was too strong a statement, but I stand by it since there are two decks in the block format that Kil'zen looses pretty horribly to, especially if the DMF decklist is used.  (One was mentioned already in this thread)

@Trebulation:  You should test more before saying someone has no idea what they're talking about.

-Jeff-

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WOW. TCG. SCRUB.
Go ahead, give it a try, everybody's doing it.

Toolbox of Terror; killing you softly every Tuesdays.

I kind of agree with Jeff. I don't see kilzin doing well for the average player. The burn and random crazy damage output can win any matchup though. I almost lost to kilzin when he put me at 26 damage on turn 5 and failed to draw 1 more burn spell. I had to play Kyria and TNO my own card to stay alive. I would say the top decks right now are Desecrator, Warrior and Priest.

1212750:

If you actually knew what you were talking about, you would know that Kil'zin doesn't "auto-lose" to anything.

Here you go Treb, since you believe that the DMF Kil'zen rush deck doesn't scoop to anything.  Enjoy.

http://wowtcgscrub.com/2008/09/07/chicago-realm-qualifier-report-september-6th/

Without Band of the Inevitable, the deck doesn't stand a chance; even with 4 Ya'za's.  Band doesn't even guarantee you a win with 4 wrecks mained.

-Jeff-

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WOW. TCG. SCRUB.
Go ahead, give it a try, everybody's doing it.

Toolbox of Terror; killing you softly every Tuesdays.

The one thing that Kil'zin (or any balls-out rush deck) always has is the ability to punish an opponent's weak draws and put them far enough behind in the first four turns that they can't recover. Consistently, over time, Kil'zin should lose to Joren, Desecrator, Lionar and Blaine more often than it wins. But in tournament play, a die roll here and a weak draw there can squeak out a few more wins for Kil'zin. Nobody's suggesting it's better than any of those decks but if a handful of people play it at any give tournament, there's a chance one of them will make it through.

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West Brom for the Premiership
Latest Result: WBA 0 Chelsea 3
2nd highest-ranked Limited player in Northwest Brooklyn
#2 Lifetime Honor scrub (#1 in '08!)
Lifetime Regional/RCQ match record: 88-64 (57.9%)

1511318:

How does Kil'zen rush take 4th place?  Not an indictment on the player, but seriously, the deck auto-looses to so many control decks in block.

-Jeff-

I'm pretty sure Kil'zin played by a good player doesn't auto-lose to anything. Rush decks always stand a chance because control decks can have answers, but they need to DRAW those answers. An awkward start for a control deck can mean a loss to rush any day.

I'll concede that point Bunk and my comments were not meant to belittle you in the least; I was just surprised that anyone would play it given how dominate the warrior armor deck is against Kilzen rush.  The matchup is amazingly one-sided...and the version in the article is not the most tweaked either.

@Anthony:  Obviously no deck wins 100% of the time, but if the odds are so great that'll you'll win say, 7-8 times out of a hundred, I think it's safe to call the matchup an auto-loss.

-Jeff-

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WOW. TCG. SCRUB.
Go ahead, give it a try, everybody's doing it.

Toolbox of Terror; killing you softly every Tuesdays.

1511318:

I'll concede that point Bunk and my comments were not meant to belittle you in the least; I was just surprised that anyone would play it given how dominate the warrior armor deck is against Kilzen rush.  The matchup is amazingly one-sided...and the version in the article is not the most tweaked either.

-Jeff-

It's a metagame call. I agree that the warrior deck dominates a kilzin deck (especially without bands). But the solo warrior deck (ironically enough) isnt popular up here. Perhaps its all the discard priest that empty your hand and then play bringer :P

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boo