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List of Rule Changes and Obscure Rules to Remember

Last post 2 hours, 42 minutes ago by MendFredy. 32 replies.
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  •  11-04-2009, 6:54 PM 1852951

    List of Rule Changes and Obscure Rules to Remember

    I'd like to make a list of recently changed rules, or cards whose ruling has been changed recently. If I forgot anything recent, please tell me so I can add it. There seem to be quite a few, and I wouldn't want anyone who only attends the occasional event to attend a big event and get a nasty surprise.

    • Amalar + Sulfuras
    Amalar is now ruled so that he does 1 extra point of damage with sulfuras, both when attacking, and when dealing damage back to other characters. So he does 2 damage back when he receives attack damage, and if he crits with sulfuras' first attack, he can potentially do 2 extra damage with a sulfuras attack.

    • Amalar + Mortal Strike
    Before, it was ruled that the damage portion of Mortal Strike was a debuff, and that Amalar did not increase it. Now, it has been ruled that they are separate, and that Amalar deals 2 damage when he uses Mortal Strike.

    • Fear Generator
    In the past, this card was ruled to remove its buff when a crit was rolled only after that roll had dealt damage. Now, if you crit on an attack, the buff is removed before damage is dealt, and therefore before you move the enemy.

    • Equipment
    Can be revealed any time before you end the first turn of the character it is equipped to. For safety's sake, I recommend still revealing it immediately, though.

    Also, you may not have realized ...

    • Protector + AOE
    A character with protector that is adjacent to an ally being attacked by an AOE can use protector for that ally to take the AOE attack. The protector must not be being attacked by the attack as usual.

    • Moving from Form to Form
    A druid that is in a form can move into another form as their instant for the turn. Normally, moving into a form, or moving out of a form, would cost your one instant for the turn, but their is a special rule to allow this.

    • ABC Exhausting
    There are multiple effects that can force equipment to be exhausted. Some state that the opponent choses what card will be exhausted, like Champion Shadowsun or Mind Blast. Others, like Parvink and Sunder Armor, do not specify that the opponent choses, so the controller of Parvink or Sunder Armor gets to.

    • Savin's Blessing of Wisdom
    The tick up for Savin's Blessing of Wisdom is not a cost, it is an effect. So you can use Blessing of Wisdom, and if Savin cannot be ticked up anymore, your character who uses it still pays one less tick.

    • Chain Lightning
    Does not target with its second or third attacks, so those cannot damage totems. Also, all the attacks of chain lightning can be protectored for by the same character!

    • Evasion
    Has been errated so that all crit effects of the attack are negated. Do not forget that to qualify as a crit effect, an ability must say "[crit symbol] crit: __________."

    • Ona Skyshot
    Her special ability isn't an instant. It can be used in addition to an instant on a character's turn.

    • Jaina's Summon Greater Water Elemental
    If Jaina is killed and the SGWE card is exhausted, it does not ready. Also, if Jaina is polymorphed, and the GWE is killed, the card does not ready.

    • Bulwark
    If a crit is rolled against a character using Bulwark, the +1 defense counter is added before defense is rolled.

    • Dralor's Hemorrhage
    This replacement effect is a little odd, because it can affect the same attack multiple times. For example, if three Dralors are adjacent to the same enemy, a melee attack on that enemy would deal +3 damage, if it dealt damage. This is because they take place sequentially, instead of simultaneously.

    • Recharge while Polymorphed
    If a character is Polymorphed, cards with recharge will not recharge, as "recharge" is actually an ability attributed to the character.

    • Irana's Arcane Brilliance
    This does not target, and does not affect characters, so it can be used on the same ABC multiple time at the same time so long as that ABC is not ready. It can be used on ABCs with recharge as well.

    • Slitherblade Tidehunter's Crit
    This crit was changed in the OCR so that teleporting the enemy is a may, and after that, using Python Grab is also a may.




    lamepoon ...
    lamepoon! lamepoon! lamepoon!
  •  11-05-2009, 5:32 AM 1853070 in reply to 1852951

    Re: Realms Players, Please don't forget these new rule changes!

    2486571:

    Chain Lightning
    Does not target with its second or third attacks, so those cannot hit totems. Also, all the attacks of chain lightning can be protectored for by the same character!

    FYI.

    304.2        Totem tokens can’t be affected by AOE abilities. They can be attacked and targeted like characters, but they aren’t considered characters for any other purpose. Abilities referring to “allies” or “enemies” can refer to totem tokens, but those referring to “ally characters” or “enemy characters” can’t.

    Chain Lightning, T3R2M5, Shaman
    Attack (Nature), Elemental
    After this attack, make a [M4] attack against a second enemy adjacent to the first defender, then a [M3] attack against a third enemy adjacent to the second defender. <p> All three attacks have “[Crit]: Damage +1.”

    Because Chain lightning says "enemy" adjacent.  Totem tokens are legal choices however,

    304.4        A totem token can be damaged only by the following:
    304.4a     An ability that targets it.
    304.4b     An attack that has been redirected (703.1g) to it.
    304.4c     Triggered abilities that affect an “attacker” if that totem was attacking.
    304.4d     Triggered abilities that affect a “defender” if that totem was defending.

    It cannot be damaged by the chain lightning.  You can however, Target a character for the initial attack, then target a totem adjacent to that character for the second attack.  Then target another character adjacent to the totem for the 3rd attack.  In effect, using the totem as a stepping stone.

    I just thought I'd share that tasty little tidbit.



    William "Zo" Zobac
    Player Management Level 1
    World of Warcraft TCG Level 1 Judge
    World of Warcraft Minis Level 2 Judge
    Team "Barns and No Bell"
  •  11-05-2009, 7:17 AM 1853092 in reply to 1852951

    Re: Realms Players, Please don't forget these new rule changes!

    Great post.. I just want to clarify a bit on this one:

    2486571:
  • Moving from Form to Form
  • A druid that is in a form can move into another form as their instant for the turn. Normally, moving into a form, or moving out of a form, would cost your one instant for the turn, but their is a special rule to allow this.


    There is actually no special rule. When 'switching' form, you are actually going into a new form. Seeing you can only be in one form at a time, the old form is no longer in effect. And the rules are rather clear about what to do when a form is removed from a character.
  •  11-05-2009, 8:11 AM 1853106 in reply to 1853092

    Re: Realms Players, Please don't forget these new rule changes!

    2983185:
    Great post.. I just want to clarify a bit on this one:
    2486571:
  • Moving from Form to Form
      A druid that is in a form can move into another form as their instant for the turn. Normally, moving into a form, or moving out of a form, would cost your one instant for the turn, but their is a special rule to allow this.
    • There is actually no special rule. When 'switching' form, you are actually going into a new form. Seeing you can only be in one form at a time, the old form is no longer in effect. And the rules are rather clear about what to do when a form is removed from a character.

      Actually, there is a special rule. See below in bold.

      303.3        While a character is in a form that grants one or more new payment abilities, that character can’t play any other payment abilities (other than the ones granted by that form). Payment abilities that change that character into a different form are an exception to this rule and can still be played.



      William "Zo" Zobac
      Player Management Level 1
      World of Warcraft TCG Level 1 Judge
      World of Warcraft Minis Level 2 Judge
      Team "Barns and No Bell"
    •  11-05-2009, 8:55 AM 1853134 in reply to 1852951

      Re: Realms Players, Please don't forget these new rule changes!

      CorayThan:

      • Protector + AOE
      A character with protector that is adjacent to an ally being attacked by an AOE can use protector for that ally to take the AOE attack.
      Only if that Protector is not involved in the AOE attack.

      CorayThan:

      • Dralor's Hemorrhage
      This replacement effect is a little odd, because it can affect the same attack multiple times. This is because they take place sequentially, instead of simultaneously.
      Can you clarify what you mean on this one?  Are you referring to an AOE attack?

      Or are you referring to multiple Hemmorage's affecting a single attack?

      Simon Key

      Player Management Level 4
      WoW TCG Rules Knowledge Level 2
      WoW Minis Rules Knowledge Level 2
      Huntik TCG Rules Knowledge Level 1
      Tournament Organizer Level 1
    •  11-05-2009, 1:08 PM 1853235 in reply to 1853134

      Re: Realms Players, Please don't forget these new rule changes!

      I clarified my statement about Chain Lightning, Protectoring for AOE, and Dralor Hemorrhage. w/ respect to hemorrhage, I meant that it can affect the same melee attack multiple times.

      lamepoon ...
      lamepoon! lamepoon! lamepoon!
    •  11-05-2009, 4:22 PM 1853306 in reply to 1852951

      Re: Realms Players, Please don't forget these new rule changes!

      2486571:

      • Jaina's Summon Greater Water Elemental
      ... if Jaina is polymorphed, and the GWE is killed, the card does not ready.



      Can i Ask why?
      According to CR v1.05

      700.2b Some Action Bar cards (including buffs, forms, pets, and totems) have “core” payment abilities that aren’t represented by text. For example, Call Fury has a core payment ability with tick cost 3 that summons Fury. The text in its text box represents Fury’s abilities once it has been summoned.

      and OCR


      Summon Greater Water Elemental, T0, Lady Jaina Proudmoore
      Instant Pet—Elemental, Frost, 1A 1R 1H
      Lady Jaina Proudmoore Only
      Frostbolt [T2R2M3] (Frost)
      [Crit]: Damage +1.
      Wave of Elementals: When Greater Water Elemental is destroyed, ready this card.

      So WoE is the pet ability, not Jaina's one.

    •  11-05-2009, 4:48 PM 1853319 in reply to 1853306

      Re: Realms Players, Please don't forget these new rule changes!

      Junkel, it's a bit counterintuitive. The big clue is that it refers to the elemental in the third person and the card refers to itself as this. That means you're taking the perspective of the card, and therefore the text of the card is what contains that effect. Meaning Poly'ing Jaina stops it.

      -Ben

      Isgee is, by definition, a snob.
    •  11-05-2009, 8:48 PM 1853460 in reply to 1853319

      Re: Realms Players, Please don't forget these new rule changes!

      So does Recharge get eliminated when a character is Polymorph'd as well?  The text there is "Ready this card at the end of tick 5."

      I wanted to give everyone a list of all the trustworthy people who traded with me on this site, but it exceeds maximum character length. To me, that's a hopeful sign.
    •  11-05-2009, 11:11 PM 1853511 in reply to 1853460

      Re: Realms Players, Please don't forget these new rule changes!

      If I recall correctly, yes, Mindhammer. I'll add that to the list as well.

      lamepoon ...
      lamepoon! lamepoon! lamepoon!
    •  11-05-2009, 11:31 PM 1853515 in reply to 1853511

      Re: Realms Players, Please don't forget these new rule changes!

      CR v1.05:
      700.1    The text in a character card’s upper and lower text boxes represents the abilities of that character, as does the text in the text boxes of that character’s Action Bar cards. Each character’s upper text box contains a single ability that is that character’s main attack. Each Action Bar card also contains one or more abilities.


       An Action Bar card does not get to recharge if its possessor is polymorphed.

      As for Summon Greater Water Elemental, 700.2b explains through Fury why GWE readies.

      CR v1.05:
      700.2b    Some Action Bar cards (including buffs, forms, pets, and totems) have “core” payment abilities that aren’t represented by text. For example, Call Fury has a core payment ability with tick cost 3 that summons Fury. The text in its text box represents Fury’s abilities once it has been summoned.


      Cheers!

      -teh Sig

      Level 2 WoW Minis Judge
      "Ouch! That was a water elemental!"-CorayThan
    •  11-06-2009, 12:00 AM 1853519 in reply to 1853515

      Re: Realms Players, Please don't forget these new rule changes!

      So what you're saying is that if you polymorph the GWE, then kill it, the card doesn't ready.

      lamepoon ...
      lamepoon! lamepoon! lamepoon!
    •  11-06-2009, 12:01 AM 1853520 in reply to 1853515

      Re: Realms Players, Please don't forget these new rule changes!

      Sig, what you just posted is contrary to the current understanding of the ruling.  The claim is that GWE will not ready because Wave of Elementals isn't an ability of the pet but of the card itself, which is an ability belonging to Jaina.

      I wanted to give everyone a list of all the trustworthy people who traded with me on this site, but it exceeds maximum character length. To me, that's a hopeful sign.
    •  11-06-2009, 12:14 AM 1853524 in reply to 1853520

      Re: Realms Players, Please don't forget these new rule changes!

      This was asked and answered before without ever being over-turned to my recollection. And while Simon has read over this thread and not pointed it out, I'm contradicting the understanding MH claims is present in the community.

      Keywords "Jaina Polymorph" yields the thread "Polymorph Second Question" from the search feature, which I used prior to the final edit of this post to review the argument.

      My interpretation is as follows: Jaina is not in control of the Greater Water Elemental's in-play stats, those represented by the text box of its pet action bar card, as outlined by 700.2b.  Polymorphing her does not stop the destruction of her pet from readying the card.  Polymorphing the GWE removes its ability to ready. enter 403.2a:

      CR v1.05:
      403.2    If a character’s health dial would be turned down to 0 or less, that character is immediately destroyed. However, characters aren’t destroyed by attack damage until all defenders in that attack have finished defending (602.1a). As a character is destroyed, the following happens in order:

      403.2a    Resolve all abilities that trigger off the destruction of that character, then remove it from play. As part of doing so, remove all buffs and counters from that character’s card and its Action Bar cards, drop it out of any form (303.4), and remove from play any pets (but not totem tokens) it summoned. This is different from destroying those pets.


      When the Polymorphed GWE is destroyed--if you can somehow do so without targeting it, it does not have the "Wave of Elementals" ability while the Debuff is on it.  The debuff is removed when the character is removed from play, clearly after triggers watching for its destruction attempt to trigger.  403.2 demands that we process these steps in order.

      2442750:
      Sig, what you just posted is contrary to the current understanding of the ruling.  The claim is that GWE will not ready because Wave of Elementals isn't an ability of the pet but of the card itself, which is an ability belonging to Jaina.

      700.2b directly contradicts this statement in addition to outlining how to handle the parts of pet cards that aren't in the text box (i.e. cost to summon).
      CR v1.05:
      700.2b    Some Action Bar cards (including buffs, forms, pets, and totems) have “core” payment abilities that aren’t represented by text. For example, Call Fury has a core payment ability with tick cost 3 that summons Fury. The text in its text box represents Fury’s abilities once it has been summoned.


      700.2b says the "Wave of Elementals" belongs to Greater Water Elemental, and 403.2a says that "Wave of Elementals" will not be able to trigger upon its destruction if GWE is Polymorphed when it's destroyed.

      Cheers!

      -teh Sig

      Level 2 WoW Minis Judge
      "Ouch! That was a water elemental!"-CorayThan
    •  11-06-2009, 1:55 AM 1853544 in reply to 1853319

      Re: Realms Players, Please don't forget these new rule changes!

      1207521:
      Junkel, it's a bit counterintuitive. The big clue is that it refers to the elemental in the third person and the card refers to itself as this. That means you're taking the perspective of the card, and therefore the text of the card is what contains that effect. Meaning Poly'ing Jaina stops it.

      -Ben


      I totally disagree.
      700.2b  makes the example of the fury:
      The text in its text box represents Fury’s abilities once it has been summoned.

      if that wasn't true, any pet of a polimorphed pg can't attack.
      Why can GWE use Frost Bolt, for example, but not Wave of Elemental? Both of them are ability.

      Another example:
      if an hunter summon an Old Bones and someone polimorphs that hunter, does is old bones lose protector? No, it doesn't, because it's an old bones ability.

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