Hi,

I can't quite find out what happens in this instance, so I'm asking here.

Here's the situation:

Players A and B are playing a game.

Random person walks by and states to other random person: "Hey, he has two Nether Fractures, is he purposely bluffing by letting that guy play that card?"

Player B (holding the 2 Nether Fractures in question) turns around and says: "Thanks for telling him what's in my hand!"

Now, the random people involved were not people in the tournament. Rather, they were just passing by. The one person didn't mean to say it so loudly; it's just that the area was noisy, and then for some reason it was quiet when he said it (you know those situations - loud noise, and then suddenly it's quiet and everyone can hear you?).

So as a judge, I deemed this to damage the game state and called that game a draw, gave them a time extension (they were only 10 minutes in) and let them play again. I told the random people not to watch the game and to move to another area.

I know that's not normally what would be done. What is the normal procedure?

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Michael Lum
Skyhaven Games
3458 Tillicum Rd.
Victoria, BC, Canada
250-477-1519
skyhavenvictoria@shaw.ca
http://skyhavengames.proboards19.com/

Found this in the Official Tournament Policy:

10. Spectator and Press Responsibilities

Spectators and press have the following responsibilities while in a tournament area:

• Act in a sporting and respectful manner at all times.

• Act responsibly and professionally while at or near the tournament site.

• Follow the instructions of any judge or tournament official.

• Notify a tournament official immediately if a player is observed failing to follow any game rules or incorrectly tracking game score or life totals during a match, regardless of whom the error benefits.

• Avoid standing close to tables or crowding walkways.

• Avoid talking to any players during a match or speaking loudly close to a match.

• Avoid swearing or using inappropriate language or gestures.

• Avoid wearing inappropriate attire.

• Avoid making offensive comments to any player or tournament official.

11. Conduct Unbecoming

Players or spectators violating responsibilities outlined above or committing tournament infractions that result in a disqualification penalty (see Appendix P for more information) may be found by Upper Deck’s Penalty Committee as having conducted themselves in a manner unbecoming of a representative of Upper Deck’s games. Such players may be suspended from all Upper Deck’s tournaments at the discretion of the Penalty Committee. General suspension times and frequent infractions resulting in suspensions are listed below. Upper Deck’s Penalty Committee may adjust individual suspension times based on factors including, but not limited to: players’ willingness to cooperate with the investigation and previous player history. Upper Deck’s Penalty Committee may also determine that the player’s actions do not fall into any of the categories listed below, and in such cases it will determine the most appropriate suspension length based on the severity of the infraction.

As for what the right call is, I personally don't know.

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Question on Ritual of Summoning...

Conrad Hex:
No. You also can't bring in a Pokemon card, the 6 of diamonds or a Christmas card from your Aunt.

LOL!

This is a tough one. One thing to do for sure is to ask some questions to make sure that the bystanders who made the comment had no affiliation or intent to benefit the player. If, for example, the bystander was admittedly a friend of the player, I think that a penalty for the player is warranted. Otherwise, I'm not sure how this should fall. Your solution (calling that game a draw and moving on to a game 2) seems reasonable under the circumstances, but I don't think that is warranted by the official guidelines. And, while under these specific circumstances, it seems like a fair decision, I can imagine circumstances where that would be very unfair (like if one player was just on the verge of winning the game, and the revealed Nether Fractures were inconsequential to the situation).
Since there are circumstance where that would be unfair, I don't think the rules would allow for it, as judges aren't meant to make decisions about who is winning, etc. (for example, the game might look neutral to the judge, but the judge might not know that one player has a complicated combo ready to go next turn that will win him the game, nor is a judge expected to see such a thing.)

Sorry I don't have an answer as to what the correct ruling would be, but I am fairly certain that your decision, while it seems reasonable and fair on its face, is likely not supported by official guidelines.

 

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Re: Deathfist

I am aware of those guidelines. I am also aware that the penalties seem to only apply to people who are:
A) Involved in the tournament (playing)
B) Involved in past or future tournaments (as players they could be banned from UDE)

However, these commenting players don't really play in UDE events and are simply casual players. So what does one do to the players who are playing?

Re: Anthony

As per my initial query - I am fully aware that this is not how things would normally be done. My question was not a "hey, judge what I have already done" - it's a "what SHOULD be done if this happens again" query. So while your comments are interesting, I'm not looking to sanction my action - I'm looking to see what would happen in the future.

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Michael Lum
Skyhaven Games
3458 Tillicum Rd.
Victoria, BC, Canada
250-477-1519
skyhavenvictoria@shaw.ca
http://skyhavengames.proboards19.com/

I would suggest posting the question over on the Judge Player Management forum.

http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/community/forums/182/ShowForum.aspx

Cheers.

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Come play at C & Js in Newark, CA

(I'm cross posting this for people who may have issues with the judge forum)

Ouch. Situations like that are unfortunate.

The first thing to do is, like Anthony said, to investigate to see if the random person making the statement knows anyone in the match or if the statement was purposeful or solicited. Assuming that no malicious intent was involved and the player just didn't know how loud he was ... we do nothing to the gamestate.

Yeah, that sucks but nothing in the gamestate is illegal and none of the players made an error. Explain to the players how unfortunate it was and have them move on.

We certainly take the spectator aside and have a stern talk about interfering in a match, even accidentally. You can certainly award the spectator a Unsporting Conduct infraction, even entering him in the tournament to do so if he has a UDE number. This will, at the least, let us see if he's done this sort of thing in the past and monitor him in the future.  

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Erik Mock
UD Judge Coordinator
WoW TCG Rules Knowledge Level 3
Player Management Level 4