Upper Deck Entertainment Forums

Hi all,

In the interest of trying to drive some discussion, especially about Evil (which seems to be less popular), I thought I'd throw out the question "what are the staple Evil major heroes?". If you were to build an Evil deck, who would you grab as a matter of course - I think it is fairly obvious which are the "go-to" heroes for good: Lok, Dante, Caliban, etc.

My thinking is that it matters what angle you're going for - if you're heavy on suits (grier/defoe) or snakes (kopesh/omeed), you'll want to build accordingly. For a general build, I'm not sure - I realise that, of course, there'll be variation if you "dip" into a few actions/minors that support the themes.

For me, the first ones that I'll grab are:

3x Dominator - 6/5 standard fatty

2x Anubian - 5/6... yeah, his drawback is annoying, but his 6 toughness makes him very difficult for Good decks to deal with.  Running him kinda mandates running at least one Scarabese though, but I can live with that.

2x Rassimov - 4/5, untargettable, fetches Darkvoids. This guy seems to be really popular, I'd probably run a third if I had him.  Stats-wise, he's solid, but his abilities rock.

1-2x Fireblade - 1/1, retrieves minors.  Ok, not that exciting, but his ability is cool.  I guess people might disagree with me here, but especially running the heavier minors like Dark Pharoah, he really does pay off.

From there, I'm never really sure.  I'd probably default go with Shauna/Wind and fill in the others with either Slitherfangs or Kopeshs, depending on the rest of the deck. Slitherfang seems like he'd be a staple for a lot of people, with good stats and a great ability - combos nicely with a lot of missions.

Anyone else?

One more thought - if I had access to them, the promo Brahe seems like he'd go right into this deck and would probably bump the Dominator if need be.  He's got good stats, but *excellent* abilities as well.

Very interested to see what people think about this topic - I'm currently working on a deck, and am kinda stuck after throwing in what I consider to be the staple cards - I've got my major heroes, as above, then I start pushing in other items.  In go Dark Pharoahs and one Scarabese, and in go 1x Ace in the Hole, 3x Flashbulbs and 2x Darkvoid...

It seems to me that the next minors to get are mostly 3/2s (or bale at 3/3)... and when I start thinking about that, it looks like Thornment is a logical choice... and with him in, I'm starting to get pushed towards Kopesh and Serpent Strikes (probably resulting in swapping fireblades for omeeds). Given the above starting point, what do people think: am I better leaning towards the snakes, or is Impet/Red Cap a better pick than Thornment (which would keep me away from dipping too deeply into snakes)?

Evil is much more flexible in hero choice than good, since there aren't as many evil major heroes that are obviously better than the rest of the choices.

Barring theme decks, I normally look at these major heroes first:
Shauna and Wind, Emissaries of Evil
Brahe, Brainless Brute
Rassimov, Global Ambitions
Anubian, The Obsidian Sword

and these as secondary choices:
Darkwave 
Grier, Organization Commander
The Professor, Leader of the Organization
The Professor, Cursed Seeker
Dominator, The Professor's Top Terrorizer
Ymir, Frost Giant
Breaker, Grier's Titan


Basically, a major should be able to trade with a majority of enemy major heroes, should be able to attack a minor hero without being traded off in the process, should have some way of gaining card advantage, and is preferably able to avoid Switchsoul (either by being untargetable or not something you want to target with Switchsoul).

I think Fireblade kind of sucks, since you have to keep moving everything out of zone 1 to keep his zone empty (or worse, put Fireblade himself in zone 2 where he can be reached more easily).

If you are playing some snakes, you may as well go all in...nothing says you can't play Impet or Redcap (whichever one) in a snake deck.

I have really gotta get me some Brainless Brutes!

Looking over the rest of your list, I can definitely see Darkwave (I usually put one in), but the others all seem much the same.  Is there any reason you pick cards like Ymir/Breaker? Ymir seems like a Dominator with a drawback.  I've not played the gold professor yet; is he that useful in practice?  No Kopesh (I love the search ability and the untap is really nice)?

The LGS professor - how does he perform?

Going back to the top - your primary choices - do you like to run 3 of each or less? At the moment I'm inclined to only go for 2 Anubians because of the drawback - are you running Scarabese?  If you're running more than one Shauna... did you have to trade your firstborn for the second? :P

Ymir's ability to produce Shauna fodder and/or a free stun every turn in a deck that can mill (discard cards from the deck to the graveyard) Ice Creatures is very useful. The main reason Ymir doesn't see much play is that decks often can't support him as well as partly because of Switchsoul. It's not like his textbox is blank ;)

Breaker is extremely good in a vacuum but is hard to play because of Switchsoul, which really, really, hurts (an opponent's Switchsoul on Breaker can swing the whole game). Being able to negate an attack by Caliban or Shauna is great, and it also allows you to make some excellent attacks, such as a major attacking their major with Breaker backup.

The Professor is OK, mostly for attacking into a major/minor combination in zone 3, but I don't like him very much. I'd only really play Kopesh in snakes, Serpent Strike isn't actually as good as it looks and if you don't play that many snakes it only gets worse.

The LGS Professor is mostly a fringe option, but his Honorguard ability can be relevant, making him annoying hard to kill through combat. If I play him, normally I also play Araknos, which makes him rather better since preventing your opponent drawing a card off your Titan summoning is important in making it actually worth it.

Anubian normally caps at 2 copies, and if you play Anubian you pretty much have to play Scarabese. Brahe and Rassimov can both be 2-3 copies, Shauna is nearly always 3 copies...that firstborn always cried too much for his own good anyway :p

shauna is great if you have plenty of fodders for it.. if not, they kinda kill themselves, so u need to pretty  much make sure they have a major nearby to kill. the ymir combo is pretty good.. switch soul is really annoyning in that sense.. but since good is doing rather well, chances are people would be running less of them (not a hugh amount to switch soul in a mirror match). it never seen much play in the uk.
You fortot to mention slitherfang. amazing card. it stop people from bunching minors on it... one stirke mode later and you can kill off quite a few the next round. If you run redcap, predator and jewelled colossis, the gold prof is amazing! Run into stun some major and kill a minor, bounce it with red cap.. or just stun a caliban before it does anything, so they can't switch soul it and have to ditch a card next turn. Can also slipstream right to the end.
Scarabese is amazing on certain mission especially when it is time critical.. u can tell if you can do a major push or not... knowing they don't have a ferocity can help make a lot of decison much eaiser (so u don't run a 4def major into a 3atk minor). Breaker is still amazing if you just get a couple of use out of it... but i won't run too many. Fireblade is great if you aim to attack, but sucks a lot when trying to hold back.
Dominator is a bit over looked.. it can kill lok BE etc due to it crazy stat.. and it can kill minors even with bubblelift! Brahe brainless brute can also work with ymir and the fodder idea.. just an amazing major in general, play absorb strength on it and watch you opponent cry. And dark wave, it kills sabriels...

---

Jack
Lv2 Yu-Gi-Oh Judge knowledge
Lv1 Tournament organiser
Lv1 Huntik Judge knowledge
Lv1 player managerment
I run stuff at roundabout toys, Ashton, UK
visit http://www.yugioh-guide.com and http://www.huntik-guide.com

I might have to give Ymir a try - I do have a bit of a soft spot for the Ice Creatures. Again, can't see him being more than a 2 of... and yeah, Switchsoul is *brutal*.

As for Breaker - aye, again, switchsoul is brutal.  The trouble I find is with all the guys in evil that eliminate/discard cards, you can quickly chew up your hand/board... its one of the biggest reasons I've always overlooked Ymir and gone for the Dominator.  If we're looking at Breaker/Ymir/Anubian/Shauna as a possible line up - well, that's a lot of cards getting discarded/eliminated to keep it rolling.  How many of these guys are you running?

Professor (both flavours) seem really lacklustre, and to me, I don't think Araknos is really worth it, even without the draw. I'd rather go for Tao/Behemoth if I was going for a legend - really, the card draw isn't that much different to having to discard for one of our other majors.

I'm interested to see that you're not keen on Serpent Strike - that card has been really awesome for me, pulling Dark Pharoahs out, and untapping Kopesh. 

Also, more than a little jealous you've gotten yourself 3 S&Ws - do you ever have trouble satisfying the drawback? How many minors/majors you running? I was hoping to get a 2nd; didn't think a third was really possible.

Jack -

I agree that good is doing great, but I'd still think it pretty likely to see lots of Switchsoul - even in the mirror, switching Caliban and Lok's text is really really nasty.

I like Slitherfang, but I'm not sure if I'd take him very often. There are a *lot* of really popular things that make relying on snake+slipstream way too unreliable: brahe/rassimov/paola/etc all break the chain, not to mention, its only *really* helpful on some missions. Personally, of the common majors, I like Ashtoreth and Sunhawk for their 6 toughness... at least if you're fighting against good. 2 attack is enough to sweep a *lot* of relevant minors too.  Anyone else like Ashtoreth?

I've really gotta get myself some jewelled colossus. Heh.

Also, I realise its not really on topic, but you run Absorb Strengths? I haven't tried it yet personally. How have they worked out? I also noticed you said you run Strikemodes - I've tried them, and they're handy, but I think Ferocity is more useful - Ferocity just gets me a lot better trades with Caliban when needed.

I wouldn't actually play that lineup - I just tend to look to the big ones first. However, remember that Ymir and Anubian are paying for themselves. I nearly always play Brahe and Rassimov because they are both just excellent cards, always play Shauna and Wind (no explanation required), and that usually leaves only one slot (playing Snakes means that either Brahe or Rassimov go).

Giving a draw to an opponent is more costly than discarding a card because you always control the card being discarded but not the card your opponent draws. Also, the card drawn can potentially be an answer to the Araknos/Behemoth/Tao, which is a problem since they got the answer for free.

The Professors don't look very impressive but they are still worth a look. The LGS one being good is more in the context of the Nationals mission where his ability to hold a position very well in tandem with the Lich. Careful use of Araknos can limit where your opponent can move his guys safely, but it really is a bit of a fringe option. Behemoth is better if you ignore the ability to prevent the draw, I suppose, but you can't do that in an Evil deck. I haven't tried Tao much, basically nobody here actually has them, which is weird, plenty of all of the other ultras...

Serpent Strike is nice when you search for it with Kopesh as it's a free card, and it's obviously strong for its potential tempo gain, but the effect isn't quite as crazy as when you first see it. Sometimes you blow out your opponent, such as by ripping out a ready Dark Pharaoh into zone 3 or something like that, but other times it's not a very exciting card and another minor hero would have been OK too.

Don't be too afraid of playing Shauna and Wind as something of a Ball Lightning (I assume you understand the parallel since you referenced "untapping"...I would have said Skizzik but not every player remembers him); if you kill a major hero with it and it's still around next turn, eliminating it is fine, anything else is just gravy.

I prefer 9 to 10 majors and the minor count varies significantly from deck to deck.

right, i just want to say one thing first, which is, I change my entire line up for pretty much every announced mission when running evil.. I used Slitherfang / auraforce for vlad's amulet mission, but would not touch auraforce otherwise for example...
Strike mode is very circumstantial, i don't run it often, i run it on top of ferocity if i really need that much combat power. The professor (SAS) combo i just love... it however doesn't work for ayers rock.. Brahe, brainless brute is pretty much a staple.. once you got it, you won't want anything else.. dominator for any combat orientated mission.. shauna for anything when you opponent is likely to push forward somehow.. (can't afford to walk them down slowly wasting a round).. i have not go Ymir to work for me properly yet.. but could be a goer for nats.. need many more testing.. as for legendarys.. Tao could be amazing in the national mission too.. i tried it, it is amazing.. araknos need a deck build around it, funny enough, have good potential for the nat... but probably won't risk it (you opponent have to leave something in zone three alive to block your lich, but if they do, you can control it and move the lich anyway... think about it.. it kinda works). Absorb strength is just an idea.. i have not tried it yet.. but still, on Brahe, a 9 7 untargetable guy? sound nigh on invincible to me.... just need to ready him somehow.. maybe with Gawain and Ashtoreth?
btw, i should have 6 shauna and wind by this weekend.. i actually went to 4 regionals and top 16 on all.. actually, won 1 and came 3rd in two.. lets not talk about the other one... two more this weekend (I live in the uk).

---

Jack
Lv2 Yu-Gi-Oh Judge knowledge
Lv1 Tournament organiser
Lv1 Huntik Judge knowledge
Lv1 player managerment
I run stuff at roundabout toys, Ashton, UK
visit http://www.yugioh-guide.com and http://www.huntik-guide.com

Shauna is bad. I was cautious of her when I got access to them for the first time, and I only ran two. Shauna is designed to suicide into other creatures for a 2 for 1, but the problem is that two heroes need to be in Zone 3 for you to do that, and if not then you're going to end up having to sacrifice for her which makes it a 2 for 2 if Shauna kills 2 on the way out.

I am aware of how well Shauna works with Slipstream, and when I got the combo working it usually won the game. However, it didn't happen often. As I played more and more games with Shauna I found I always drew it when I didn't want it, and thus cut it to 1. Then when I drew it I was wishing it were any other Major Hero in my deck, so I removed Shauna entirely. Then the consistency of the deck improved dramatically.

Yeah, maybe future cards/missions will work well with Shauna and warrant its play. But until then, the drawback is too much.

2604908:

Shauna is bad. I was cautious of her when I got access to them for the first time, and I only ran two. Shauna is designed to suicide into other creatures for a 2 for 1, but the problem is that two heroes need to be in Zone 3 for you to do that, and if not then you're going to end up having to sacrifice for her which makes it a 2 for 2 if Shauna kills 2 on the way out.

I am aware of how well Shauna works with Slipstream, and when I got the combo working it usually won the game. However, it didn't happen often. As I played more and more games with Shauna I found I always drew it when I didn't want it, and thus cut it to 1. Then when I drew it I was wishing it were any other Major Hero in my deck, so I removed Shauna entirely. Then the consistency of the deck improved dramatically.

Yeah, maybe future cards/missions will work well with Shauna and warrant its play. But until then, the drawback is too much.

Very interesting. I can totally see where you're coming from - I haven't gotten my hands on more than just the one I got from regionals, but I am also concerned about the drawback (especially since I already have so many majors available that require me to discard or sacrifice minor heroes).

Personally, I don't much care for the interaction with Slipstream - I don't usually run it anyway, and I don't think the trick is good enough to warrant S&W (although it might well be good enough to justify Slitherfang).  I know that my deck would deal with S&W much the same way as I'd deal with Caliban - fire off a stun or two and use the drawback to eat up their options.

That's why you obviously run powerdrain. I don't really give a damn about Touchram because all you're doing is forcing a 1-1. If you 2-2 I don't care. If I 2-1, awesome.

If I go to zone 3 and trade with one dude, then next turn I have to eliminate, that's cool. It implies I have zone 3 under my control, and you're forced to cower in zone 4 putting scapegoats like scolopen or w/e. I'm not down in advantage either, although I have incredible field presence.

I then proceed to win the next round if you have no answer. It is also one of few true options to Caliban and Sabriel as well.

Incidentally, this is also why flashbulb is a staple at 3.

Resolving a  Slipstream on S&W and popping it into zone 5 will cause serious problems to your opponent, providing they don't have an acceptable answer to it (Dante Vale, Flashbulb etc). They're either going to have to 2 or more for 1 it, or accept that all your guys will be in zone 3 or more by the end of the round. For most of the missions currently released, that's almost game right there.

2469020:

That's why you obviously run powerdrain. I don't really give a damn about Touchram because all you're doing is forcing a 1-1. If you 2-2 I don't care. If I 2-1, awesome.

If I go to zone 3 and trade with one dude, then next turn I have to eliminate, that's cool. It implies I have zone 3 under my control, and you're forced to cower in zone 4 putting scapegoats like scolopen or w/e. I'm not down in advantage either, although I have incredible field presence.

I then proceed to win the next round if you have no answer. It is also one of few true options to Caliban and Sabriel as well.

Incidentally, this is also why flashbulb is a staple at 3.

Powerdrain is also on my bad list. It's horrendously inconsistent.  

Also, Shauna herself doesn't have shroud. Both Dante Vales eat her up