World of Warcraft Minis Rules

Welcome to the WoW Minis Judge Forums!

731819 — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:20:28 GMT

Welcome to the WoW Minis judge forums!
(Moderators: Simon Key)

* This forum is for judges to discuss WoW Minis rules questions.

* You have to have a minimum of "WoW Minis Rules 1" to post here.

* Always search before starting a new topic. This includes via the 'Search' feature on the top right of the forums page, as well as all relevant judge resources.

* Please do post:
- WoW Minis Rules related questions and discussions
- Articles that you think other judges would find useful

* Please do not ask questions, or post about:
- Actual judge and/or player names, if it is an incident at a specific event
- Ongoing DQ investigations

These guidelines may change as this forum evolves.

Whilst these forums are run 'unmoderated', the moderators will actively monitor them. Moderators will edit and/or delete posts as necessary - you will be sent a PM should this occur. We feel this is a better approach than running these forums 'moderated', where each and every post must be approved by a moderator instead.

Judging at Worlds: Thanks.

1754046 — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:46:20 GMT

As with my experience in the past, the judging keeps on getting better and more consistent. For those of you who I directly interacted with (Simon, Scott, Siggie, and Ben), great job at keeping a professionally run tournament with quality decisions.

To both those I did and did not directly interact with (or neglected to mention due to my horrible memory): Thanks for judging and continuing to do so. The game would be a lot worse if we didn't have you all around.

Pets

1462164 — Thu, 01 Oct 2009 01:36:26 GMT

When a pet owner is killed the pet is "removed" from play. Is this removing considered that the pet is being destroyed? Most for the purpose of Water Elemental right now. Does he ready when Jaina is destroyed?

If possible run an official tournament under "creative" conditions?

1758547 — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:00:52 GMT

In my area some TO run "creative" officially sanctioned, if possible that? (sanctioning)

Ex:

* Mix one monster, one alliance, one horde
* Without epic minis
* Special maps and scenarios rules
* Only commons
* Between "X" and "Y" honor points.
* Mix ABC -> Mage using shaman ABC

Thanks for your help

Fog of War and AoE

1462164 — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:08:14 GMT

I was previously under the impression that AoE could still be used while Fog od War was in effect since it did not target characters. However after reading Fog of War closer it says "Only" in refference to what can be targeted. It doesn't say anything about being able to target spaces. So what can you attack or not attack?

Fog of War, T0

Instant

Characters can target only adjacent allies and

enemies this tick.

Targeting Totem

2561146 — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:32:01 GMT

Ok so when I was posed with the question, "If I summoned a totem and ended my turn on top of it, could an enemy character target the totem, or am I technically blocking line of sight?," I told them I'd get back to them on it. After looking through all the rules I can't find anything on it. So I guess my question is, can a character target to totem or opposing character or both? Or is one blocking the other?

Mocking Blow vs Bestial Fury

1462164 — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:08:01 GMT

My thoughts on this is that Bestial fury does not stop Mocking Blow from working since Mocking Blow is not actualy ticking anyone up just cause them to choose and attack, and it is not the Mocking Blows fault that the attack costs ticks.

Is this correct? I come to this by thinking of instant attacks that cost 0 and so don't tick anyone up.

Arugal's You Too Shall Serve and summoning pets

1217570 — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:09:44 GMT

After going through the new rules version (1.05) we've come to a little ... strange and awkward conclusion that is enforced by the rules BUT overruled with common sense.

For Reference :
Archmage Arugal Only. Play only during ticks 6-10. End Arugal's turn, gain control of target non-legenday enemy, and immediately take a turn with it. Both that enemy and Arugal pay its costs for the turn.

If Player A would use this on Character B , he gains controll of it for 1 whole turn , nothing wrong or strange about it(so no problems there). Player A may use the ABC's of Character B , still no problems found.
Now the issue : What if Player A , using Character B , summons or calls , one of B's Pets ?

400.1 A player controls the characters and tokens he or she puts into play, and the Action Bar cards of those
characters. No more than one player can control the same thing at the same time.

Would Player A be the legal controller of the pet ?

Turn?

899327 — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:35:27 GMT

A question came up today from a friend building a rogue team and it's slightly interesting after reading the rules so I told him I'd quadruple check....

What constitutes "a turn"?

Section 501.2 says:
As a character's turn starts, it's controller becomes the turn player until a character controlled by a different player starts a turn. Ongoing effects that lat "until the start of [this turn]" expire. Then if any abilities trigger (704.2) at the start of turn, resolve those before doing the following.

It then goes on to talk more about options available to act, move or instant for a mini.

So, here's the scenario:
Zomm, Haruka, and Thangal are fighting Vigor, Dralor, and Jaina (why, who knows, they've all been drinking maybe)... but The alliance team has no minis to act on tick 5 while the horde team has both Thangal and Zomm to act on tick 5.

Thangal starts his turn and attacks Jaina, moves, and goes into bear form. Then, the alliance team has no one to act with, so the horde team player uses Zomm, who attacks Dralor, and then plays expose armor. Since 501.2 specifically says the turn player doesn't change until a different player starts a turn, can both Jania and Dralor receive a -1 armor from expose armor?

I'm 99.99% sure that Expose Armor is specifically meant for any mini that was attacked this turn by the rogue using it will get the -1 armor and even though the turn player doesn't change from Thangal to Zomm, that a turn is, or should be, defined by a single mini taking it's actions, by either moving, instant-ing, action-ing, or doing nothing but ticking up, and then switching to another mini.

If not, Expose Armor is ridonkulous, but I think it already is and will only get better once Fan on Knives is out and Illidan is declared a Rogue class :-)

Anyway, thanks and I look forward to hearing that yes, a turn is a full sequence used by one mini and only one mini and not the shifting of active players. :-)

Is valid print the character/ABC cards?

1758547 — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:23:39 GMT

Hi!

For sanctioned events:

1) I have only the mini, is valid print the character card?

2) Also is valid print the ABC packaged with that mini?

Inverse,

3) I have only the character card, can use a proxie/token as the mini?

Thanks

Multiple Triggered Replacement Effects

899327 — Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:00:22 GMT

Essentially, the ultimate question here is, is Aleyah's Blessing of Sacrifice an Ongoing triggered Ability, or just a Triggered Ability?

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This is the board set up: http://i515.photobucket.com/albums/t351/Steelwing73/map.jpg

Pink: Aleyah Dawnbringers, each equipped with Hand of Rag

Orange: Any other mini on the same team with Aleyahs

Green: Hunter, opposing mini, attacking the Orange Mini with a ranged attack

Scenario one: Green Hunter throws 6 successes. Orange Mini resists 1 and takes 5 damage total. My understanding of competing replacement effects would be that the player owning the replacement effects chooses which one triggers first, so left Aleyah (as you are looking at it now) has her blessing of sacrifice trigger, absorbs two damage, and her Hand of Ragnaros deals one back to the Green Hunter. Then, there is 3 damage left to go onto the Orange Mini, but the Right Aleyah’s replacement effect would now trigger, and take 2 damage, thus triggering her Hand of Ragnaros, dealing one more damage back to the Green Hunter. Then the Orange Mini takes 1 damage.

Scenario two: Green Hunter throws 3 successes. Orange Mini resists 1 and takes 2 total damage. Again, since there are competing replacement effects, the controlling player chooses one, presumably on the Aleyah with the highest health, to have that one’s blessing of sacrifice kick in, takes two damage, Hand triggers, and deals one back, and the other Aleyah has nothing happen as there is no more damage for her replacement effect to absorb. Orange mini takes 0.

Sound about right? In short, trying to nail down what happens with two Aleyah’s in play, hand really doesn’t matter much, it’s moreso the competing replacement effect situation.

My thinking is that 704.3 talks about multiple non-triggered ongoing abilities with the same name being the ones that can't effect a mini at once. I always get confused on what constitutes triggered ability vs an ongoing triggered ability.

Non Believers... Boots of Utter Darkness

899327 — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:30:23 GMT

Simon, or Siggie, or someone with a level 2 or above please jump in here so I can show someone in my BG this is fact.

Boots of Utter Darkness do NOT grant a mini stealth. They only allow a mini who has Stealth as an ability, to become stealthed, even if they begin their turn adjacent to one opposing mini or less.

Someone is apparently believing that it grants them stealth, even if the mini doesn't have the ability already and I'm ruling it does not grant them stealth.

Gencon 09 - Thank you to all the Outstanding Minis Judges

1202630 — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 00:20:09 GMT

I just got home a few hours ago from an outstanding weekend of judging. I wanted to take the time to applaud the outstanding job of all judges (especially the minis ones) for their work this past weekend. It definitely could not be done with out you guys.

I enjoyed meeting all the new faces (Yes even you Siggie), seeing all the ones I've met previsouly. I had a blast with all of the constant questions and "hypothetical" situations posed to our valient head judge and leader for Conts Simon Key and others.

Kudus to you guys and I look forward to working with you all again (hopefully at worlds ;)

question about the LOS with range 4

1447421 — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 10:02:36 GMT

We had one longer rule discussion at the DMF in Köln this weekend. The problem was the line of sight with range 4.

Taking the grid file from the other LOS question:
http://wiki.gamegardens.com/images/3/38/Hex_grid_coordinates.jpg

Character A is standing at 0.0. Character B is at 3.1
There is a hill at 1.0.
From the 405.4 there should be no clear LOS from A to B.

Ruled by me: Excluding the 2 outer pathes (0.0-1.0-2.0-3.0-3.1) (0.0-0.1-1.1-2.1-3.1).
The remaining 2 middle pathes (0.0-1.0-2.0-2.1-3.1) (0.0-1.0-1.1-2.1-3.1) are both blocked. So there is no LOS.
A cant see B.
Is this correct?

The second problem i encountered was the case that was printed in the Deluxe Starter.
With A at 0.0, B at 3.2 and a hill at 1.1.
The rule say something about the 4 pathes. Sadly you have 6 pathes from A to B in this case. So 405.4 could not even apply to this.
The 2 outer pathes (0.0-1.0-2.0-2.1-3.2) (0.0-0.1-1.2-2.2-3.2) have a clear LOS would be ignored.
All the remaining 4 middle pathes
(0.0-0.1-1.1-2.2-3.2)
(0.0-0.1-1.1-2.1-3.2)
(0.0-1.0-1.1-2.2-3.2)
(0.0-1.0-1.1-2.1-3.2)
are going though the 1.1 and have a blocked LOS this way.
I decided, that you dont have a clear LOS even though there is no clear rule for this scenario.

Basicly i was saying: Ignore the other 2 pathes and only check the middle pathes. If you have at least one way with a clear path, you have LOS and can target the other character. But if all the middle pathes are blocked, you cant target or see the other character.

Quote from the CR 1.02
405.4 Range 4 is an exception to 405.3 if, of the four paths of equal length to the destination, the middle two paths have blocked LOS. In this case only, LOS to that target is considered blocked, even though two paths of length 4 have unblocked LOS.

Is this a legal way to make a reroll?

1758547 — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 19:53:45 GMT

Thanks in advance!

Serpent Sting/Static Charge, Boston, and Continentals.

1754046 — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:36:29 GMT

Sicne Vashj appears to be gaining ground and I think this was ruled incorrectly at Boston, I wanted to get official clarification before Continentals. From the OCR:

Serpent Sting, T2R4, Hunter
Debuff—Poison, Marksmanship
When debuffed character takes an action, deal 1
damage to it after that action.

Static Charge, T1R3, Lady Vashj
Debuff, Elemental
Lady Vashj Only
When debuffed character takes an action, deal 1
damage to it and each of its adjacent allies after
that action.

Let's say Haruka, with one health remaining, attacks someone with her her Manslayer:

Haruka Skycaller, 8, Horde
Orc Shaman—Enhancement, 3A 3R 8H
Ancient Hakkari Manslayer [T3R1P6] (Melee)
[Crit]: Haruka may immediately play Flame Shock
without paying its [Tick] cost.
Flame Shock [T2R2M4] (Fire)
[Crit]: Damage +1.

The order clearly appears to be: Pay cost of action by ticking Haruka up, Roll attack dice (assume she gets a crit), roll defense dice, Haruka takes one damage and dies, Her free flameshock fails to launch.

At Boston, the order was ruled by a few judges: Pay cost of action by ticking Haruka up, Haruka takes one damage and dies. She never attacks.

The latter ruling leads to a one health character running around choosing between being useless, ticking up several, taking a damage, and then ticking up two more, or hoping the opponent will deliver the coup de grace so your character could be useful again.

Draft

899327 — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:54:23 GMT

We have never played Draft in my local Battlegrounds and I wanted to check something before we venture into it... in the OCR:

100.3 says: For sealed pack and booster draft play, characters in a party need not be from the same faction. In sealed pack, each character has two action bar cards. In booster draft, each character can have any number of action bar cards, and characters need not have the same number of action bar cards.

Does this mean I could draft, say a Shaman, and if I am able to draft 3 or more ABCs for that Shaman, I can play them all and I'm not limited to 2 ABCs per character? Several folks think that you are limited to 2 ABCs no matter how many you draft, but I think by the above, you can have any number, so if you are lucky enough to draft like 4 or 5 shaman cards, you could have a huge action bar set up.

Thanks,
S

Mortimer Disc Question

899327 — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 06:16:03 GMT

Just want to make sure I understand Mortimer's Demonic Disc and teleporting to it:

404.02A says "A character teleports directly to its destination space; it doesn't move through any intervening spaces, and so it isn't impacted by any terrain or enemies occupying those intervening spaces. A character can't releport to a destination space already occupied by a character, but can teleport to a destination space occupied by cover or high ground without penalty.

So, if Mortimer A makes and attack, say his normal one, and ticks up by 3, then as an instant, teleports to a disc already in play. He ends his turn on the space occupied by the disc. This, I believe, means that no other Mortimer may use that disc to teleport to since the space is occupied, until Mortimer A's next turn and he moves from that space.

It was argued tonight in playtesting that Mortimer B should be allowed to teleport to any adjacent space since the one the disc is occupying is already occupied by Mortimer A.

I said no, and just want to make sure I'm right. As I understand it, it isn't like re-spawning when someone is on your spawn point, this is totally different and should follow 404.2A

Thanks!

Polymorph and Sulfuras

1567080 — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:07:38 GMT

On the forum the following situation has been presented.
A character wielding our favourite weapon, Sulfuras, has been converted to our favourite animal, the sheep.
An enemy character throws an AoE attack where our sheep is grazing the verdant grasses and so injuring the poor animal.
Does the attacker receive 1 damage from Sulfuras' triggered ability?
I'd say yes because the weapon hasn't lost its abilities but, I wanted some official confirmation.

Protector vs Chain Lightning & AOEs

2861419 — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 08:57:06 GMT

I'm subjecting my humblest interpretation of the Protector ability. Please correct me if I may have understood it some other way from the CR. Here goes my take on the ability and how it interacts with Chain Lightning and AOEs:

A character with Protector can (if the controller chooses to)soak up all the damage from a Chain Lightning thrown at a distance. The Protector ability is a triggered ability (the 1st word in the text line is "IF") and once the trigger condition has been satisfied there's no clause in the OCR that would limit its use provided that the Protector ally is adjacent to the proposed defender and the source of the attack is at a distance.

Also, Protector CAN be used against AOEs! To use the protector ability, only 3 conditions have to be met: 1) the attack should be made from a distance, and 2) the ally being protected is adjacent. It does not require the protected ally to be targeted, it just has to be a proposed defender which means the character with Protector can choose to defend in its ally's stead and eat up the damage. Please note that this can only be done if the Protector character is outside of the AOE and its adjacent ally is the one affected. 3) The Protector ability can't be used if the character who has it is already a proposed defender like in the case of being affected by AOEs. The reason behind this is that there is only one attack made and all the characters in the area are affected all at the same time and NO damage is dealt not until each of those characters has made its defense roll.

The next time I bring my minions out on the field where shamans whimsically bolt Chain Lightnings and where Mages incessantly cast Flamestrike, I'm definitely bringing my Bulwark of Azzinoth!

2009 WoW TCG & Miniatures Continental Championships Judge Call

869587 — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 15:39:20 GMT

Hello Judges,

We are happy to announce sponsorship opportunities for the upcoming 2009 WoW TCG & Miniatures Continental Championships, which will be held at Gen Con Indy from August 13-16. This is a phenomenal chance to improve your judging skills and to work with some of the most talented judges and players in the industry.

This sponsorship opportunity will be open from Friday, June 5, 2009 through Friday, June 26, 2009. No sponsorship applications will be accepted after 11:59 pm on June 26, 2009.

If you are interested in applying for TCG sponsorship, please email judge@upperdeck.com with the subject line, “Sponsorship for 2009 WoW TCG Continental Championship.”

If you are interested in applying for Miniatures sponsorship, please email judge@upperdeck.com with the subject line, “Sponsorship for 2009 WoW Miniatures Continental Championship.”

Sponsorship

There are two types of sponsorship, Full and Partial. If you only need airfare or only need hotel accommodations, please indicate that in your email. This will increase your chances of receiving partial sponsorship. Please indicate your sponsorship request clearly in your email.

Full Sponsorship: Upper Deck covers the full cost of your airfare and hotel for the duration of the event.

Partial Sponsorship: Upper Deck covers the full cost of EITHER your airfare OR your hotel for the duration of the event.

If you are selected for sponsorship, an Upper Deck staff member will contact you from July 6-10, 2009, and let you know the type of sponsorship you have received and to arrange travel to the event.

Application Requirements

Level 1 WoW TCG or Miniatures rules certification.
Level 1 Player Management certification.
Must be 18 years of age or older.
Ability to work long hours with minimal breaks. Most days will be at least twelve hours long.
Ability to assist event staff with duties other than judging, including tournament area maintenance, player registration, side event logistics, game demos, and so on.

General Information

The WoW TCG Continental Championship will be held from August 14-16, 2009 with Last Chance Qualifiers being held on August 13, 2009. Sponsored judges will be expected to judge at these events.
The WoW Miniatures Continental Championship will be held from August 15-16, 2009 with Last Chance Qualifiers being held August 13-14, 2009. Sponsored judges will be expected to judge at these events.
If you are not available to judge on Thursday, August 13, you may still be considered for sponsorship.
Each judge will receive $50 cash (US Dollars) during each day of judging to offset the cost of meals, snacks, taxis, parking etc.
A judge may be scheduled for work outside of the Continental Championship area. Talented judges are needed for side events, particularly on Saturday and Sunday.
The dress code is black and white Upper Deck judge shirt, black slacks, and black shoes. If you do not have an Upper Deck judge shirt, a shirt will be provided for you at the event.
If you are not selected to receive sponsorship for this event, please do not be discouraged. We receive hundreds of applications and only require a very small number of judges. If you continue to work hard and advance your skills, you will most certainly be chosen for a future event.
If you are not selected to receive sponsorship but still wish to volunteer at this event, please send an email to judge@upperdeck.com with the subject line, “Judge Volunteer for 2009 WoW Continental Championship.”

Include the Following in Your Email

Please use the following template when applying for sponsorship.

· Name

· Date of birth (mm/dd/yyyy)

· UDE number

· Type of sponsorship you are applying for

· World of Warcraft TCG rules certification

· World of Warcraft Minis rules certification

· Player Management certification

· Days you are available to judge

· Tests you would like to take at this event

· Email address

· Mailing address (street, city, state, ZIP, country if from outside the United States)

· Phone number

· Events you regularly judge

· List of premier events you have judged, if any (Regionals/Realms, Darkmoon Faires, Nationals)

· List of premier events you have judged for other games

· Any special requirements (hotel, flight, food, disabilities, and so on)

If You Are Selected For Sponsorship

Judges are expected to act in a professional manner at all times, and any judge not doing so will be asked to leave the venue immediately.
Judges will need a credit card to cover incidental expenses at the hotel (room service, movies, laundry, and so on.)
Judges will cover their own transportation to the airport and hotel.
Judges may be assigned to share a room with one other judge.
Judges may not have friends, spouses, players, or volunteers stay in their rooms for liability reasons.
Judges will pay any changes to the hotel or flight schedule that cost more than the original purchase price.
Many judges may wish to take advanced level exams. While we will try to rotate judges so that they are able to take this exam, no judge is guaranteed a chance to take the exam at this event.
Bring comfortable shoes and socks.
Be prepared to work very hard for the duration of the event.

Sealed Tournament without Booster

2858728 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 05:02:01 GMT

Hi there.

Appendix D says:

Upper Deck recommends the two booster format, where players choose three characters per party, but organizers are free to try other creative ideas, as long as this is clearly communicated to all players prior to the tournament.

Am I right, that under the condition that it is clearly communicated bevor the tournament, that you can start a Sealed Tournament without actually buying boosters?

I ask because we are very few players here and nearly everybody has got a full set of minatures.
So most of them arent interested in buying additional boosters.
If the organizers find another way to randomly generate "booster" teams would it be tournament legal to use the existing miniatures?
Maybe we would be able to have some more tournaments here till ne next expansion comes out.

Protector

1758547 — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 21:33:30 GMT

Please helpme!

In which situations applies protector?

Irana attack to Lady Vashj and Ironfur Bear has protector.

Thanks in advance!

Judge Test Results

2858728 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:46:49 GMT

Hi.
Yeah i know this is not the right part of the forum, but it sems that i am not able to post new messages in any other part.

Is there a was to get to know what was wrong in the judge test?
I have done all three that are important to me and i passed them all, but as i expected i had some questions wrong.
I would like to know which ones and why they are wrong, because i cant improve my knowledge if i dont know what i did wrong.
Does anybody know how to get more detailed results?

Negate vs played

1811756 — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 06:17:05 GMT

If Kaustron's first summon was counterspelled is his Revive Pet condition active?

there are a couple of seemingly conflicting rules on this.

703.1f which defines when an ability has been 'played' comes before the react window but negatation definition states that the ability does not resolve and "has no impact on the game".