World of Warcraft Rules

Welcome to the World of Warcraft TCG forum!

855144 — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:14:37 GMT

Welcome to the World of Warcraft TCG forums!
(Moderators: Alan J., Edwin T.)

* This forum is for WoW TCG judge related questions and discussions.

* You have to have a minimum of "Rules Knowledge - World of Warcraft: Level 1" to post here. Rules questions are welcomed, but we shouldn't see any that can be simply answered with the CR or FAQs.

* Always search before starting a new topic. This includes via the 'Search' feature on the top right of the forums page, as well as all relevant judge resources.

* Please do post:
- Judge related questions and discussions
- Reports of events you have judged at
- Articles that you think other judges would find useful or interesting

* Please do not ask questions, or post about:
- Actual judge and/or player names, if it is an incident at a specific event
- Ongoing DQ investigations

* Be Cool, Be Professional……Don’t Be A Dick.

These guidelines may change as this forum evolves.

Whilst these forums are run 'unmoderated', the moderators will actively monitor them. Moderators will edit and/or delete posts as necessarry - you will be sent a PM should this occur. We feel this is a better approach than running these forums 'moderated', where each and every post must be approved by a moderator instead.

Thank you for reading.

WoW TCG Judge Resources

855144 — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:20:05 GMT

WoW TCG Judge Resources

Comprehensive Rules, OCR & FAQs -	ude.com/wow/rules
Tournament Policy -	ude.com/policy
Mantis Tournament Software -	ude.com/mantis
UDE Central FAQ -	ude.com/faq

UPDATE: Comprehensive Rules 4.0, Scourgewar FAQ.

855144 — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:37:44 GMT

Hello world,

The following documents have been published/updated:

1) Comprehensive Rules updated to v4.0. [doc] [pdf] [discuss]

2) Scourgewar FAQ. [doc] [pdf] [discuss]

Enjoy!
Ed.

Upper Deck Store not following UDE Rules.

2182283 — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:00:09 GMT

The UD Store in Hunnington Beach needs new people to run it.

They do not in ANY WAY follow 80% of the UDE Rules for WOW TCG.

1) Announced a top 8 then decided not to have it after last round was finished due to Manager wanting to leave.

2) had a 30+ Realm Qualifier which accoarding to UDE polocies requires you to have at least 2 Judges. In this event not only was the head Judge incompetent but one of my friends was having to help out as a player to make calles the head judge was supposed to be making.

3) They never Sell singles nor do they Ever bring in a outside distributer for the events that they hold. This is also a supposed requirement for holding events larger than store level.

4) 4 round tournament for a 42 person sneak peek. This is absolutly rediculess.

I would very much like to have Ry or someone else that has any say over this to please let me know whats going on because i have quite a few people who are both upset and discouraged from ever playing there again due to the lack of rule folowing that is taking place in that store.

I would expect that as the UDE store they would hold them selves in a it higher standard rather than just slack off and break whatever rules they feel like it at the time.

Thanks in advance for any response.

-Mitch

How does Kel'Thuzad work?

1980535 — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:46:44 GMT

Hello, My question is for the Kel'Thuzad' s text:

Kel'Thuzad, 10, Master HeroLich, 3 [Frost] / 33 Health (Scourgewar-21E)
[Hunter], [Mage], [Rogue], [Warlock], or [Warrior] Hero Required <p> When your hero becomes Kel'Thuzad, target an
opponent. Gain control of an ally he controls. Search his zones for one ally each and put any number of them into play.

Can someone clarify this to me?

Thanks for all

Jin'rohk, The Great Apocalypse

2795549 — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 17:42:16 GMT

Jin'rohk, The Great Apocalypse
When a hero is dealt damage with Jin'rohk, destroy up to that many target non-hero cards controlled by that hero's controller.

Hello friends,

Does this card destroy resources?

Thanks!!

Slow Play/Stalling thread - for your consideration

1338970 — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:44:18 GMT

I have reason to believe I was Stalled against at a recent tournament with the Judge observing for the entirety of my Round 3, Game 2. Thank you in advance for considering the report in the thread at the bottom of this post.

I am not looking to get anyone in trouble. My motivation in all this is to simply ask whether we can define more clearly any of the following, or related areas (especially with Realm Championships a few short weeks away):
1) Slow Play rulings (ie - define max number of seconds before a player's first play on their turn), with the intent of avoiding abnormally long average times for player turns.
2) End-of-Match Procedures to prevent an opponent's response opportunity from counting against a player who's clearly attempted to end his turn when time is called.
3) Compile, for judge enrichment, a list of known deck archetypes whose goal is not to actually win 2 of 3 games.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
P704 Stalling
This infraction occurs when a player intentionally plays slow during a game to gain an advantage.
Players that intentionally play slow to gain an advantage from end of match procedures create an unfair game environment, and unnecessarily delay the tournament.

The penalty for Stalling is a Disqualification for both Rules Levels.

Examples:
A player who won the first game of the match purposely plays slowly in order to stall for time and wait for the round to end.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/WOW/COMMUNITY/forums/1/1849028/ShowThread.aspx

Totem rules, ppp, suspended curse and spell supression etc

2073339 — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:14:08 GMT

Hello,

I am a relatively new judge, and would like some advice on a matter that came up in a recent battlegrounds tournament.

Rule 305.3a states that :-
A Totem card can be identified by the word “totem” on its type line. Each Totem has a health
value but no printed ATK. Totems can’t gain ATK or be proposed as attackers. Totems can
be proposed as defenders (600.3). Totems are abilities, but can be targeted (706) as though
they were allies while they are in play. Each attachment attached to a Totem is destroyed by
the game as part of PPP (410.5).

In particular the sentance highlighted in bold was the issue, A player attempted to play a suspended curse on a totem and then this rule was highlighted.

My understanding is that, in this case, during PPP, the checks made determine weather the target of an attachement is legal or not, ie ( If immolate was played on a totem, the initial damage would be dealt, but the attachment would drop off as part of the ppp as the target is NOT an ally), However seeing as a totem is an ability this would not apply to ppp as the target is an ability and is therefore legal?

I also brought up rule, 103.1 - If the text of a card specifically contradicts these rules, that card takes precedence. Which again in my interpritation would apply as the text of such a card (ie, Attach to target abilty), directly contradicts rule 305.3a.

Please could someone of sufficiant rules knowledge please clarify this ruling for me as I am sure it will come up again at some point in the future.

Thankyou,

Martin

Vambraces of the Sadist.

2795549 — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 14:37:53 GMT

Vambraces of the Sadist.
"When an ally is destroyed, your hero deals melee damage equal to that ally's cost to target hero in that ally's party."

Hi friends,

One question regarding this card. Does this effect apply on the hero controlling this equipment?

I mean, if an ally is destroyed in the hero's party that controls "Vambraces of the Sadist" he makes melee damage to himself?

Thanks and sorry for my bad english.

Question on interrupt effects.

3075243 — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 04:23:18 GMT

Firstly, I apologize for posting in this thread, this is because I'm not allowed to post in the Judges Program.

Question is, can I target to interrupt a card twice?

For example: I play the ability, blistering fire. Opponent, in response, plays the ability, fizzle, to interrupt my blistering fire. In response, I play the ability, nether fissure, to interrupt his fizzle.

At this point of time, is it legal for the opponent to play a fizzle, targeting at my blistering fire instead?

The chain would be: Blistering Fire>Fizzle>Nether Fissure>Fizzle. In this case, Fizzle cannot be added onto the chain, as it would have to be in response to nether fissure. Thus, for the opponent to play fizzle, he would have to start another chain and interrupting the blistering fire. Is that legal?

Hesriana and totems

3007352 — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 20:55:23 GMT

Hesriana, 3, Warlock (Honor-73R)
Ally—Succubus Demon, Pet (1), 2 [Shadow] ATK / 3 Health
When Hesriana enters play, you may remove target opposing ally from the game, and Hesriana has that card's printed powers while it remains removed from the game.

Hesriana's ability can target totems, however many totems printed text refers to the given totem by name. Does this mean that the ability is useless after being transposed onto Hesriana, or would the 'printed' text change to reflect that it is Hesriana's power now?

example:

Searing Totem, 2, Shaman (Azeroth-116U)
Instant Ability—Elemental, Fire Totem (1), 1 Health
Ongoing: At the start of each turn, Searing Totem deals 1 fire damage to target hero or ally. <p> (Totems can be attacked or targeted like allies.)

Raid Rule R101.3c

2279490 — Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:17:56 GMT

This specific rule tells:
A Boss player has a separate graveyard for each deck. Opposing modifiers can’t remove cards from any of these decks or graveyards. A Boss player doesn’t lose the game if any of these decks runs out of cards. If that happens, that deck’s graveyard is shuffled into that deck by the game (even if cards can’t leave that graveyard) and the Boss player continues drawing from it. This doesn’t use the chain.

The specific part that interests me is:
"Opposing modifiers can’t remove cards from any of these decks or graveyards."
Shouldn't that specific rule forbid the raid player to draw from cards or effects controlled by other players, such as Morik's triggered power (When Morik attacks, each player draws a card.)? What about Arcanist Thelis' power (When Thelis sabotages a deck, switch that deck with yours.), would you simply add your deck to one of the raid's, or would it simply fizzle? My guess would be the second, since the action cannot be completed.

Maybe this part should be made clear when the rules for Naxxramas get added.

Pin rulings question.

2073339 — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:48:04 GMT

Hi again guys,

Again a ruling I need from someone of sufficient judging level.

Last tournament, a player played an ally and in response an opponent played 'pin' :-

(1, instant ability, (honour 88-c), marksmanship-subtlty combo :- Target player cant play allies this turn)

The person playing pin, argued that the ally played is interuppted and goes to the graveyard and any rescources used to play the ally remain exhusted.

However, the official card referance for fields of honour clearly states :- Pin cant interrupt an already played ally card (and so you would usually play it during the targets 'start' phase.. Instant allies can be played in response.

Also - Comprehensive rule 707.2 states - If at anytime during these steps, your unable to finish adding the link, the entire action is rewound, the gamestate reverts to the same game state before the action was attempted, and your return to having priority as you did before attempting to add the link.

My understanding would be that :- Player plays ally, opponent plays pin as instant, Pin resolves, ally cant resolve so gamestate rewound, ally goes back to players had and any resources used to play are not exhausted, priorty returns to turn player.

Is this correct?

Many thanks again
Martin

Question on Vindicator Kentho's card effect

3075243 — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:06:14 GMT

Hi, I have doubts about Vindicator Kentho's card effects, which reads as such:

Destroy Kentho Interrupt target card or effect targeting a card in play you control.

So does it mean, that destroying Kentho, I can interrupt ANY card? How does it read when amplified? is it:
a) Interrupt target card or interrupt an effect that is targeting a card in play you control.
OR
b)Interrupt target card that is targeting a card in play you control, or interrupt an effect that is targeting a card in play you control.

To give an example:

I play the card, blistering fire against my opponent. He destroys Kentho to interrupt my card. I know that is perfectly legal, I have no confusion about that.

If I have a Selin Duskrunner in play, the effect would allow me to deal 1 shadow damage to target hero or ally. He destroys Kentho to interrupt my card. That i have no problem with that too.

But can he destroy Kentho to interrupt my Selin Duskrunner when i play it? That is my only confusion. Thank you for taking your time reading this, I hope that some kind soul out there can clear my doubts.

Tithe, Arcane Intuition

1400998 — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:49:01 GMT

1) Can I target by Tithe ready ally?

2) If I have Arcane Intuition and play second - I draw 1 card or 2?

Hero vs. Player ruling

3007352 — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 05:43:32 GMT

This came up in our last tournament:

Player A had Noxel Shroudhaggle: Your Hero is Untargetable

Player B plays Victimize: Target Player discards two cards and you draw two cards

The question is whether or not this is a valid play.

I say yes because the player is not the hero, the hero is a card and the player does not constitute a card. I believe that the description of Untargetable requires it to be a card in play. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Untargetable: A keyword power that cards can have. It means “This card can’t be targeted.” Such cards are untargetable only while in play. An untargetable card in play can’t be chosen as a target. A target is illegal if it becomes untargetable.

Upcoming Rules Updates for Raid Decks?

1404717 — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:38:41 GMT

Okay I hahve a group that I routinely run raids for. They and I prefer Raids to one-on-one. My question is this: Will UDE be coming out with any rules updates in regard to the newer cards and how they interact with the Raid Decks?

Currently the group I run for loads up on Eye of the Storm Battleground location and tries to use that to lock down the Raid Boss and their minions. While not as much of a hinderance in Black Temple or Molten Core it can be particularly devastating in Magtheridon and Oynxia where there is usually only the Raid Boss.

I honestly don't see from a semantical point of view how the Raiding Characters can be raiding Black Temple and in Eye of the Storm at the same time. I'd houserule that they can't be used for that reason alone but my players wouldn't go for it.

Small update to Appendix C: WoW TCG Policies

2255697 — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:18:09 GMT

Hello all,

I just wanted to point out the small update added to Appendix C: WoW TCG Policies yesterday. You can find the newest version of these documents here: http://entertainment.upperdeck.com/COMMUNITY/files/28/english/category1039.aspx

The new Badge of Justice rings (Scourgewar Badge 1-4) are currently tournament legal. They are NOT legal for Drums of War Block Constructed.

Hope this clears up any confusion.

New Judge Here

2911765 — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 19:26:54 GMT

Sorry to post this in the rules section, but I need some guidance. I was just accepted into the Judge program by passing the level 1 online judge test. I would like to know where to go from here. I understand I need to attain level 1 player management status and have found the test for that online, but I would like to know exactly what player management is and where I can study it before taking the test.

Once I am level 1 in both, do I need to start judging some events (like a RQ) before becoming level 2? If so, how do I volunteer to become a judge at an event? What do I do to take the next step after that to become level 2?

Thank you!

End of turn triggers

1199414 — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:38:48 GMT

This question came up during my weekly Battlegrounds. At what point do end of turn triggers actually go on the chain? Mostly this has to do with Weldon Barov. My players wanted to know if, when the trigger resolves and the tokens enter play could the respond to it. Normally I would just say yes of course, but then I looked up End Phase in the Comp Rules.
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503. End phase

503.1 As an end phase starts, a priority window opens. As that window closes, a wrap-up step starts.

503.2 Wrap-up step

503.2a There are no priority windows during a wrap-up step, so nothing can be added to the chain. Any effects that trigger during a wrap-up step are added to the chain at the start of the next turn’s ready step (501.1 08D0C9EA79F9BACE118C8200AA004BA90B02000000080000000E0000005F005200650066003100340038003800300033003900300036000000 ). During a wrap-up step, the following things happen in order:

· If the turn player has more cards in hand than his or her maximum hand size, that player must discard down to that maximum hand size. The default maximum hand size is seven cards.

· Modifiers that last until end of turn expire.

· The wrap-up step, end phase, and turn end, and then the next player clockwise starts his or her turn.

The main question come from Any effects that trigger during a wrap-up step are added to the chain at the start of the next turn’s ready step (501.1 08D0C9EA79F9BACE118C8200AA004BA90B02000000080000000E0000005F005200650066003100340038003800300033003900300036000000 )

So what I needed to know was when specifically do these triggers go on the chain?

Loophole: no rule forbidding the use of raid cards.

2279490 — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 11:49:07 GMT

I think that there's a slight mistake in the rules (nothing dramatic, but it has to be pointed out). As the game is now, there is no rule forbidding you to place a raid card in a deck, providing you fulfill its requirements. Nothing strange, up to there, since you would have to use a hero with the raid's icon, which is impossible. However, there are two heroes who would "fulfill" all requisites to use some of those cards. Those are Imp Lord Pinprik and Mother Misery. The first one would be able to use many raid abilities (those that deal fire damage), and the second one would be able to pick Magtheridon's weapon. Is it a mistake inside the rules, or did I miss a rule somewhere forbidding the use of such cards (or are they allowed, but that would seem strange, since most judges would think the card illegal anyways)?

In fact, the same could be said for any card that isn't supposed to be played, as a token for example.

Nyn'jah's Tabi Boots and Adam Eternum

1596515 — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:45:33 GMT

Hi,

I'd like to ask how does the two work with each other where a player with Nyn'jah's Tabi Boots activates an opposing Adam Eternum's ability.
Does the Adam Eternum come into play for the player with the Tabi Boots?
My guess is, it does not since Adam is placed in its owner's RFG zone.
I can't seem to find it exactly in the comp rules.

Thanks in advance!

Emek power, Wub's Cursed Hexblade + WOTF

1544078 — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 06:58:21 GMT

I'm writing for two creepy things that we have during last coffe time plays.

First of all, I think the easy one, can I use Emek the Equalizer power if I don't have cards to force opponent to discard a card for free?? I think the answer is yes, but I'm not pretty sure.

And now the big one.

I have Wub's Cursed Hexblade and Charkov in play and another one in graveyard. The question is, can I target Charkov with the Wub's Crused Hexblade and put in play the Charkov of my cementery even if I can destroy my actual Charkov in play? The thing is that I'm not pretty sure if I can target a WOTF ally with a destroy effect. And also don't know if Wub's Cursed Hexblade continues its effect.
I know it's a bit confusing but I'm sure you will get the thing.

Thanks for your time, I'll be waiting your answers!!

Freezing Band

1725114 — Tue, 18 Aug 2009 11:46:59 GMT

Hrm.. does Freezing Band affect cards drawn before it entered play, or does it just set a condition that if you drew a card, you can't draw anymore?

Example:

P1 plays Freezing Band.
P2 Invocates and tries to search for Nether Fracture. Fails and leaves 2 resources open, letting Freezing Band resolve.
At EOT P2 wants to draw a card with a resource.

Can he do that? He did not draw any after Freezing Band entered play.

Information needed to contact a level 3 judge, and question about the "if you do" rules.

2279490 — Thu, 17 Sep 2009 23:48:36 GMT

Hi everyone, I've got a few questions.

The first one is about how to make sure that there is a possibility to take a level 2 WoW Rules test during the next French Championship. I think I already have the level to pass it, but I have no idea about where to ask for it, when and how.

For the second one, I'd need a very experienced judge to help me about it.
There is this "If you do" part in many cards that seems to just confuse about every single player that exists (even some judges). I am mostly talking about Dimzer and Zalan.
For example, Dimzer states:
"When you play Dimzer or another ally, you may put 1 damage on it as it enters play. If you do, draw a card."
That means that the triggered effect triggers when you play Dimzer, and resolves then by creating a modifier that lets you place 1 damage as Dimzer enters play and draw if you do so. Those actions are resolved using the same modifier, so you would do both during the action 710.b (while keeping in mind that you cannot place more counters than the character's printed health, since continuous modifiers aren't being applied to and by this card yet), then continue normally.

Am I right, for the moment?

Zalan states:
"When an opponent's hero readies, you may pay (1). If you do, destroy target ability or equipment that opponent controls."
As I see it, when it triggers, you target an ability or an equipment. Your opponent can then respond. When you resolve the triggered effect, you have the choice to pay (1) or not to pay it, if you did pay it, then you destroy the targetted card.

Am I still right (if I was for the first one)?

I am sorry for those questions, since I am almost sure that those cards work this way, but I am discussing this matter on a forum, and a guy that I think has a higher judge rank than me is telling me it doesn't work this way (I was able to find Dimzer in the BotG FAQ, and prove that I had at least right the order the actions were performed in).