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Treeborn Frog Sideways in Graveyard - Legal or Not?

Last post 09-05-2008, 4:10 PM by crazdgamer. 64 replies.
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  •  09-05-2008, 4:54 AM 1407390 in reply to 1407044

    Re: Treeborn frog sideways in the graveyard?

    If a player rearranges their graveyard in any way without an appropriate effect, they have just put the game into an irreperrible state.  Thus, if they have a sideways Treeborn, I would ask a Judge to come over and enforce the fact that the graveyard is supposed to be a Nice-Neat-Organized-Pile as per the rule book. I would also ask that a player who "flushes out their graveyard" (so that all card names can be read) also keep their graveyard in a single pile instead of spread out.


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  •  09-05-2008, 6:18 AM 1407447 in reply to 1407390

    Re: Treeborn frog sideways in the graveyard?

    842510:

    If a player rearranges their graveyard in any way without an appropriate effect, they have just put the game into an irreperrible state.  Thus, if they have a sideways Treeborn, I would ask a Judge to come over and enforce the fact that the graveyard is supposed to be a Nice-Neat-Organized-Pile as per the rule book. I would also ask that a player who "flushes out their graveyard" (so that all card names can be read) also keep their graveyard in a single pile instead of spread out.

    I'm not sure I'm understanding the first sentence of your paragraph. Are you suggesting that a disrutped graveyard puts the game into an unrepairable game state or simply stating that the graveyard is disrupted beyond putting it back to it's original order? When the order of a graveyard is changed as judges we're not viewing that as an unrepairable game state, we're viewing it as a PE Minor (Warning) offense.


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  •  09-05-2008, 1:30 PM 1408023 in reply to 921418

    Re: Treeborn frog sideways in the graveyard?

    Here is the official answer to the treeborn frog question.

    Remembering optional trigger effects is part of skill testing within the game. Players may not use visual aids to remind them.

    Remembering mandatory trigger effects (such as Sacred phoenix) is the responsibility of both players, so players are allowed to use visual aids (such as turning the card sideways) and even notes to remind them of its effect.


    My question in regards to Alex ruling on this is, Are mandatory Triggers the only rulings that both players are responsible for or both optional and mandatory ones. If Optional ones do not have the same wait or serverity of not triggering and resolving as mandatory ones, why is so much pressure put on all optional effects must trigger and resolve even if they are not being used. Will not a optional effect not being allowed to trigger in and of itself change gamestate? Also what is the best call for a situation like this.


    Player A plays Sacred Phoenix. Ends Turn

    Player B Fissure's it. Sets a face down spell/trap. Ends Turn

    Player A forgets Sacred Phoenix. Continues with turn.

    Player B wins on the next turn

    Player A is filling out the slip and suddenly remembers he forgot the mandatory effect of Sacred Phoenix.

    Boasting in front of a judge Player B says he remembered but wasnt going to tell him.

    What type of penalty should be applied.

    My opinion would be Unsporting conduct: Cheating As he stated he remembered the effect but chose not to maintain game state by reminding his opponent.  For records purpose the DQ would be immediatly given however the round results would remain the same with Player B winning the match but dropped and DQ'd before the next round began.

  •  09-05-2008, 1:53 PM 1408074 in reply to 1408023

    Re: Treeborn frog sideways in the graveyard?

    1127326:

    My question in regards to Alex ruling on this is, Are mandatory Triggers the only rulings that both players are responsible for or both optional and mandatory ones. If Optional ones do not have the same wait or serverity of not triggering and resolving as mandatory ones, why is so much pressure put on all optional effects must trigger and resolve even if they are not being used. Will not a optional effect not being allowed to trigger in and of itself change gamestate?

    An optional trigger that was skipped is no different than a player chosing not to use the effect. Therfore the game state is not hurt. while it may not be what the player hoped or wanted, it is not in a state of disrepair.


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  •  09-05-2008, 4:10 PM 1408591 in reply to 1408074

    Re: Treeborn frog sideways in the graveyard?

    284102:
    1127326:

    My question in regards to Alex ruling on this is, Are mandatory Triggers the only rulings that both players are responsible for or both optional and mandatory ones. If Optional ones do not have the same wait or serverity of not triggering and resolving as mandatory ones, why is so much pressure put on all optional effects must trigger and resolve even if they are not being used. Will not a optional effect not being allowed to trigger in and of itself change gamestate?

    An optional trigger that was skipped is no different than a player chosing not to use the effect. Therfore the game state is not hurt. while it may not be what the player hoped or wanted, it is not in a state of disrepair.

    Indeed. 

    It's not the job of neither the judges nor the opponent to tell the player how to play the game.  There's an obligation to point out and remember mandatory effects and the true state of the game; nothing more.  Players must remember to activate optional effects; that's part of a player's skill. 
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