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Ban List discussion
Last post 07-26-2008, 6:34 AM by HybridHero. 147 replies.
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 02-21-2008, 8:32 PM |
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Dewater
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Joined on 10-28-2006
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Australia, The Capital
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Posts 261
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Points 330
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 2069843:DMoC could have used a ban, just to keep it off the radar of OTK possibilities. Now I can't say that
I am fully happy with this list, but it isn't too bad. The only thing that I have a problem with is that this
list solved no problems besides Raiza and Demise. Now I can sympathize with you, because your
hands are tied in this matter and you cant control the ban list. I just think that between UDE and
Konami should be a amendment in the contract that allows any "out of Asia" countries to have their
own ban lists. This way everyone can be tailored to. America's problems are different then Japans,
Austrailia's, Canada, and Everywhere else. With diversity can come constructive creations that would
have else been lost in the pile of "not competative enough because Japan screwed us over once
again". Just my opinion.
You'd end up having to face these problem for Worlds anyway. Whilst they could make a separate ban list for Worlds (as I suggested before) I actually doubt they would.
Given this ban list as an example, if we had a separate list then at worlds all the Non-OCG people would be rolled over with OTK builds or other builds with cards they don't have restricted. (Well that's a worst case scenario admittedly.) If you recall a few years back we did have a different list the the OCG, it just caused more problems and complaints then this one has ... yet. Best thing at the moment, watch what happens in the March Torns and see how it goes, you may find your fears realised or baseless....
Out in the middle of nowh... I mean Australia ------------------------------------------------------------- Yugioh! TCG Rules Knowledge Level 1 WoW TCG Rules Knowledge Level 1 Player Management Level 1 Tournament Organizer Level 1
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| 02-21-2008, 8:39 PM |
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Xing93
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Joined on 09-18-2007
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Posts 236
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Points 205
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1842119: I just read the new lists for March 1st, and I have to say that I am very disappointed.
First off, let me say that it's about time a Monarch got limited. Raiza is by far the deadliest of the bunch, and it took you guys long enough to figure it out.
Now, on to the disappointments.
First off, there are the new Bans. I really have only one complaint here, though.
1) Breaker the Magical Warrior
- I laughed when I saw this. Breaker is a one-time Mystical Space Typhoon with legs. His effect is rarely, if ever, used twice in a single duel, so I see no point in this.
Now for the Limited stuff.
1) Advanced Ritual Art
- Bit late, don't you think? Though not a disappointment in and of itself, it is the timing that makes me shake my head. The Advanced Demise deck has long since died out of competitive play. All you did here was kick the corpse.
2) Monster Reborn
- Were the people who thought this up suffering from insanity at the time? Seriously, do we REALLY need a card that can Special Summon anything from ANY Graveyard at NO COST? The least you could've done was ban Destiny Hero - Disk Commander before resurrecting this thing.
3) Ojama Trio
- And the point of this was... what? Seriously, what was the point? I don't see this card used a whole lot in competitive play, so why bother?
And now for the Semi Limited cards.
1) Book of Moon
- Unban Cyber Jar while you're at it. Seriously, this thing should've been left on the Limited List. It's defensive AND offensive capabilities are too much.
2) Cyber Dragon
- You're just BEGGING to be lynched, aren't you? Cyber Dragon is my favorite card, and you've just killed the theme. And not only have you killed the theme, but you did something that had even less sense behind it than everything else: You Semi'd a card that NOBODY runs more than 2 of outside of a Machine Deck! And don't you give me "You've still got Proto-Cyber Dragon" either! Proto-Cyber Dragon has ONE use and ONE use only: Fusion Material. Thanks a lot, UDE and Konami. Way to give the finger to your players.
3) Foolish Burial
- You JUST released Phantom Darkness, and you STILL put this at 2? And have we forgotten about a certain Disk Commander?
4) Mage Power
- This thing is better than United We Stand, and I don't CARE what you say about the 300-point difference in the boosts. You can make Mage Power give a big boost a lot quicker than you can United We Stand.
5) Magical Stone Excavation
- Actually, I'm not disappointed at all. I suppose this is to make up for Magician of Faith, but the discard cost also justifies it. Still, I'd have left it at 1 just to be safe.
6) Necroface
- Before this list came out, I had a deck that utilized the power of Necroface and several anime cards, along with a variety of other RFG- and draw-elemented cards. I would get a bunch of cards into the RFG piles of both myself and my opponent, only to reset it with Necroface and have it gain anywhere between 3000 and 4000 ATK. I also ran three. I can understand putting it at 2 so that there's still a chance of making the loop, but I think this thing is too powerful to be justified.
And now for the unlimited stuff
1) The Gadgets
- These guys were DEADLY at three, and then you Semi-Limited each one, a (rare) wise move. And now you're handing their power back to them? Jeez, why don't you just let your R&D department play in tournaments now?
2) Pot of Avarice
- ...........Gadgets. I don't need to say anything else.
And there you have it. My honest opinion about UDE/Konami's latest screw up. Thanks a lot, guys. I'll be plunging various electric tools into my chest now.
You reasonins are REALLY bad. Advanced Ritual Art should not
have been on the list, I agree, but Demise should've been banned.
Demise will make a comeback this format is they didn't limit ARA. Book
of Moon.... should go at 3. This card is not anywhere overpwoered....
have you evne seen this card used much? Put it to 3 even won't matter.
This is one of their few good changes, I'm surprised that someone
actually disagreed with this. You're just dramatic, like most people
when a new list comes out. Magical Stone Excavation, DDT all over again, this card should stay at 1. Next format is all about speed. Necroface being semi limited is BECAUSE... of the Nectoface FTK mill, the one with Grinder Golem and Inferno Tempest. Gadgets
are worse when used with 3 each instead of 2, screams dead hands. With
the upcoming format they need all the support they can get to counter
all the crazy FTKs. Jinzo at 3 can be a big problem at them Pot
of Avarice, I don't even run ONE in my gadget deck, as oppression
gadget doesn't need them, ESPECIALLY this fast format. If you run 3 pot
of avarice outside of MPT, then you don't know how to build a
consistent deck. Gadget use 1 Pot usually, 2 once in a while, but never
3.
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| 02-21-2008, 8:59 PM |
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Dewater
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Joined on 10-28-2006
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Australia, The Capital
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Posts 261
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Points 330
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 1790899:
Advanced Ritual Art should not
have been on the list, I agree, but Demise should've been banned.
I don't agree here, Demise was fine, it was ARA that made him broken. Not to mention the Exodia decks that were abusing ARA as well. Ritual Monsters already were creeping back in, but these days I've seen them used more for Trade-In bait.
Gadgets did surprise me, some people though with a lot of the Gadget assistance cards restricted it was safe to have them at 3 again, but this is one I'll wait and see, I'll agree thou my old Gadget deck only ever ran 2 pots, 3 leads to too many possible dead draws. (I tried it once. Got all 3 pots in the first 2 turns *shudder*)
I think that All-Out-Attack was partly responsible for the limiting of Ojama Trio.
The general (around here) thought about the breaker/faith ban is simply because Apprentice is at 3.
I have no real idea about Magical Stone Excavation simply because it is near impossible to get the Champion Packs out here, and as far as I know no-one in the local games has one at all.
Cyber Dragon, everyone could see it coming, some are just thankful it wasn't down to 1.
I see more Dasher's going via Foolish then Disk, but in both cases that's was Monster Reborn is around to counter ... sort of. There are just some inital thought, as I said before. Best to wait and see what really actually happens in the torns.
Out in the middle of nowh... I mean Australia ------------------------------------------------------------- Yugioh! TCG Rules Knowledge Level 1 WoW TCG Rules Knowledge Level 1 Player Management Level 1 Tournament Organizer Level 1
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| 02-21-2008, 9:05 PM |
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Xing93
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Joined on 09-18-2007
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Posts 236
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Points 205
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@ Wolfgang Limiting Demise will do little, banning it would be good.
Book is a card that helps prevent aggression and slows down the fire. I can tell if you have a limited knowledge of the game because you think Book should be limited. Most people here would agree that Book should be at 2 or 3.
That doesn't excuse MSE for powering upp DDT further, as its insanely fast and pwoerful already this format.
I said Fifth Gadget is not good as 2 sets. Smashing Ground and Fissure cannot be replaced. You have to realize we're in a different format. and stop judging everything like it was 1 or formats ago. Oppression Gadgets are really the best Gadget right now, and due to Jinzo at 3 cause it a lot of trouble.
You fail to say anything other than "Pot of Avarice is going to make Gadgets more powerful", without backup and ignoring the fact that the average gadget player will only use 1 Pot, maybe 2 if it's Fifth Gadget. Once again, no sane person would use 3 Pot.
By the way, I didn't misread anything. I didn't say Book is useless. Book is a GOOD card, but not overpowered in the slightest. Also, you need to get updated on what's going to come up in the next format.
Next format is going to be FAST (capitalization for emphasis), barely any flips will be played.
Also, I would appreciate it if you discuss in a good manner.
@ Dewater, ARA helps other Rituals, banning it takes away their potential. Only problemic Ritual is Demise, ban that and we're done with it.
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| 02-21-2008, 9:29 PM |
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| 02-21-2008, 10:01 PM |
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infinitesniper
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Joined on 09-01-2007
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Posts 114
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Points 390
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With the world Tournament nearing around June or July and Allure of Darkness being US Exclusive, it will not see any play at the world tournament...so no threat of any kind there and as others stated is easy to side deck against it...here's an OCG card that can stop that OTK deck.... YG02-JP001 Raiou
Ultra Rare - Yugioh GX 2 Book
Thunder/Effect Level 4 ATK/1900 DEF/800
YG02-JP001
When this card is face-up on the field, both players cannot add cards
to their hand from their deck aside of drawing each turn. Also, by
sending this face-up card on your side of the field to the Graveyard,
negate the special summon of an opponent's monster and destroy it. Other cards can stop it like ... Damage PolarizerGroup: Trap Card Type: Trap Icon:Counter Activate only when an effect that inflicts damage is activated. Negate its activation and effect, and each player draws 1 card. GreedGroup: Trap Card Type: Trap Icon:Continuous Each time a player draws cards because of a card effect, he/she takes 500 points of damage during the End Phase for each card drawn by the card effect. Penalty GameGroup: Trap Card Type: Trap When your opponent has 4 cards in his/her hand, select and activate 1 of the following effects: •Your opponent cannot draw cards during his/her next Draw Phase. •Your opponent cannot activate any Spell and/or Trap Cards during this turn. Protector of the SanctuaryAttrib: Earth Type: Fiend/Effect Level:4 Atk: 1100 Def: 1900 As long as this card remains face-up on the field, your opponent cannot draw a card(s) except during Draw Phases.
YR03-JP001 Messenger of Hades - Gors Promo
Ultra Rare - Yugioh R Manga Promo Stats: DARK / Fiend/Effect Level 7 ATK/27 DEF/2500
Card #: YR03-JP001
Found In: Yugioh! R Manga
Translation: If you would take damage from a card your opponent
controls and have no cards on your side fo the field, you may Special
Summon this card and activate 1 of the following effects according to
the type of damage taken:
| - Battle Damage - Special Summon 1 ''Messenger of Hades - Kaien''
Token (LIGHT/Fairy/Level 7/ATK ?/DEF ?). The ATK and DEF is equal to
the amount of damage taken.
- Effect Damage - Inflict damage to your opponent equal to the damage taken.
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| 02-21-2008, 10:40 PM |
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The Gi-Ga-Gravemind
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Joined on 01-12-2008
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Posts 455
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I have never found it difficult to be vocal when the time calls for it. One of several personal flaws, as often it fails to gain anymore than negative attention, serving only to further hinder my task, whatever it may be. I say this because I have some questions that I feel desrve to be answered and would hate for my attitude and manerisms deafen their plight:
1) We know we have seen this ban list before. For my own clarification, why were we then not allowed to post the OCG list for discussion in this forum when ours was clearly identical?
2) (in relation to my first) was there ever any question as to whether our list would be different? does anyone have the power or attempt to exercise their power to change it?
3) our forum and our entire game has cried out for the removal of several cards. can these cards be removed? will these cards be removed in the forseeable future?
I'm sure I'll be ale to sleep tonight even if these are never answered, I will also not ask again, I would just like the answers to any that you may give.
Thanking you for your time!
The Gi-Ga-Gravemind
I am a monument to all your sins: "I will ask and you will answer..."
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| 02-21-2008, 10:45 PM |
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| 02-21-2008, 10:46 PM |
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| 02-21-2008, 11:07 PM |
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Ryoutaro
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Joined on 10-29-2007
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Posts 3,505
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1984233: I have never found it difficult to be vocal when the time calls for it. One of several personal flaws, as often it fails to gain anymore than negative attention, serving only to further hinder my task, whatever it may be. I say this because I have some questions that I feel desrve to be answered and would hate for my attitude and manerisms deafen their plight:
1) We know we have seen this ban list before. For my own clarification, why were we then not allowed to post the OCG list for discussion in this forum when ours was clearly identical?
2) (in relation to my first) was there ever any question as to whether our list would be different? does anyone have the power or attempt to exercise their power to change it?
3) our forum and our entire game has cried out for the removal of several cards. can these cards be removed? will these cards be removed in the forseeable future?
I'm sure I'll be ale to sleep tonight even if these are never answered, I will also not ask again, I would just like the answers to any that you may give.
Thanking you for your time!
The Gi-Ga-Gravemind
You know this technically was answered for a variety of reasons. For starters UDE liked the web traffic. But moreso, the official OCG List was released... Feb 21, 2008 which look just happens to match the day the TCG List was released. Now considering there were several fake lists, to avoid any confusion issues, they (UDE) did want any leaked or spoiled information being posted, even if it was the correct one. But realize also that this list was already made weeks if not months ago (else it would not have been in V-Jump when it went to press). As for your 2nd point, only once since the TCG adopted the ban list has there been any significant difference and that was in Fall 05. The other times things differed by no more than 1 card and even that was balanced out by the next ban list (Cyber-Stein) or by Worlds (Magical Stone Excavation). So is it any great surprise that it was the same? Not really. Will it ever be like that Fall 05 list with significant changes? Again, probably not and that's due to Konami's wishes. *shrug* Not that major of an issue. Lastly, the ban list really is for cards that really were overpowered when they were made. Really, we don't want banned cards. I'd rather see them come out with new ones to deal with other sets rather than just blindly banning them.
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| 02-22-2008, 6:39 AM |
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freetoduel
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Joined on 04-27-2007
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I can't believe how much hypocrisy I am seeing. You are all complaining about certain cards not being banned, yet talking about how you are building decks with those same exact card in them. This is exactly why the ban list exists. There is very little originality in this game anymore. Once a deck type arises that starts winning, everyone runs out to copy it. Stop being sheep. Make your own deck that will counter the top ones. UDE is doing their very best to counter the OTK/FTK decks, but they are not going to be able to stop every single one right away. The list is what it is, nothing that is said here is going to change that for the next 6 months. We should all be putting more time into finding ways to stop ME or whatever FTKs are still around, instead of beating a dead horse.
UDE should consider not posting the decklists for the top decks at regionals and shonens. This could help with the copying of deck types.
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