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864951:

1858158:

By your logic then, playing Level Limit - Area B while Final Attack Orders is active with Goblin Attack Force on the field would result in an infinite loop and couldn't be done, oh but they made a ruling for how to handle that. *cough*

You mean the "first card priority" ruling, right? The one that says "Whichever card was on the field first takes priority"? Yeah, I've heard of that, and ironically, that's another opinion that I've heard on how this situation should be handled: whichever card between PMD and Reficule/Simochi was on the field first when the other is summoned/activated takes precedence, and is the only card among the two that will have its effect activate and stick.

Honestly, I'm just baffled why it's taking so long for UDE or Konami or whoever has the final say to make a definitive ruling on this. I would've hoped that, once the OCG got their copy of Prime Material Dragon in their Extra Pack, they'd be quick to hammer out a ruling for it, but apparently not. Plus, there really ISN'T a consensus over how it should be resolved; every person I've talked to about this has their own opinion on it, so leaving it up to the head judges really isn't going to do anything.

Actually, it's "Last to Resolve" Priority.

Konami doesn't care about the card while it is a TCG Exclusive...  they honestly don't like the ideas of TCG Exclusives.

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107-744-616
Circle of Tragedy Duels
YGORK2, PM1, TO1
UDE May Use My Card Ideas At Will!
EVERYTHING I SAY IS PERSONAL OPINION
Prepare for the coming Global Crisis

842510:

The reason why 2 "Reverse Trap" cards don't interact is because while you can activate multiple in the same turn (no law against it), they will only create a state where the original card text of Increase becomes Decrease and original card text of Decrease becomes Increase.

However your thoughts on Converting are incorrect due to the ruling on Rainbow Life Vs Bad Reaction to Simochi, which states an effect that is originally:
Burn -> Gain -> Burn = Stop.

So, wait, we already HAVE a ruling based on the Prime Material Dragon/Reficule situation? Then why the bloody hell isn't THAT ruling used? It still doesn't make much sense to me (since the state that Rainbow Life creates for the turn would still theoretically cause an infinite LP gain/loss loop with Simochi), but if that's how it's ruled, then why isn't it applied to Prime Material Dragon vs. Simochi/Reficule? What about that particular card situation is so different from the Rainbow Life/Simochi situation that prevents the latter case's rulings be used for the former?

And as I said, Konami now has Prime Material Dragon, had it for around a month so far, so they SHOULD care about it NOW.

its not applied to PMD because PMD applies to BOTH PLAYERS while Bad Reaction and Rainbow Life apply only to one player individually.

Also, Rainbow Life is a State, where as PMD is a Continuous Effect.

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107-744-616
Circle of Tragedy Duels
YGORK2, PM1, TO1
UDE May Use My Card Ideas At Will!
EVERYTHING I SAY IS PERSONAL OPINION
Prepare for the coming Global Crisis

842510:

its not applied to PMD because PMD applies to BOTH PLAYERS while Bad Reaction and Rainbow Life apply only to one player individually.

That shouldn't matter; the only way it WOULD matter is if the card causing the LP gain/damage initially hits both players (like Rain of Life), and even then, there's been card combos where one card affects both players, but the other card would negate or reverse the effect of the first card for one player; Protector of the Sanctuary vs. Morphing Jar, for example. With that situation, both players are being affected by Morphing Jar, but Protector of the Sanctuary would prevent the opponent from drawing outside of their draw phase, so both players discard for Morphing Jar, but only you get to draw. Same thing should apply for PMD vs. Simochi/Reficule; The controller of Simochi/Reficule would gain LP from PMD like usual, but their opponent would lose LP from Simochi/Reficule countering PMD's effect on them. Simple.

And you know what the most ironic thing about all this is? I'm basing all of this on card rulings of similar card effects and card situations, like any good duelist SHOULD do. The building blocks for resolving this situation are all right there in the rulings for past cards, but no one is taking the time to look. That is sad; it makes me think that duelists are spoiled and expect every card ruling and combo and whatnot to be handed to them on a silver platter instead of, y'know, doing the research themselves.

And what's the difference if it's a continuous effect or a state? You still have the same scenario: any damage you take that turn is treated as LP gain for the entirety of when the effect is in play. It's not like Rainbow Life is like Last Will, where it dissipates after the first time it turns damage into LP gain, it lasts for the entire turn, so it would technically be able to reverse Reficule/Simochi's effect for the rest of the turn, causing the infinite loop that PMD/Simochi/Reficule theoretically would.

TCG Exclusive mechanics cannot be compared to cards that are translated from the OCG.

I was told that by Franklin DeBrito on Saturday when I asked him why we still have no ruling for PMD in person.

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107-744-616
Circle of Tragedy Duels
YGORK2, PM1, TO1
UDE May Use My Card Ideas At Will!
EVERYTHING I SAY IS PERSONAL OPINION
Prepare for the coming Global Crisis

842510:

TCG Exclusive mechanics cannot be compared to cards that are translated from the OCG.

I was told that by Franklin DeBrito on Saturday when I asked him why we still have no ruling for PMD in person.

Dude, what the hell are you talking about? Translated FROM the OCG? PMD is being translated TO the OCG with its release in the OCG's Extra Pack! And as you said, Konami already gave us a ruling for Grandmaster of the Six Samurai long BEFORE they were able to get their hands on it, so obviously any rulings for TCG cards, INCLUDING TCG-EXCLUSIVES, have to come from Konami themselves. So there is literally NO EXCUSE why there is NOT a definitive ruling on PMD vs. Simochi/Reficule yet, AT ALL; Konami could've given us one when it first came out up until they got the card themselves a month ago.

Relax just a little.  Ask yourself what motivation does Konami have to provide a ruling on PMD? 

The Answer is, none yet.  We cannot make Konami do anything.  It is their game, and we play for the fun of it.  I they want to play mind games with a TCG exclusive, no problem

The good news is that when the OCG releases PMD, Konami will feel the pressure; and until then, there is nothing wrong with "asking the Head judge."  It works!

Enjoy the game

 

842510:

TCG Exclusive mechanics cannot be compared to cards that are translated from the OCG.

I was told that by Franklin DeBrito on Saturday when I asked him why we still have no ruling for PMD in person.

One of the many many questions I had forgotten to ask him myself :P

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YGO RK Lvl 2
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1468858:

Relax just a little.  Ask yourself what motivation does Konami have to provide a ruling on PMD? 

The Answer is, none yet.  We cannot make Konami do anything.  It is their game, and we play for the fun of it.  I they want to play mind games with a TCG exclusive, no problem

The good news is that when the OCG releases PMD, Konami will feel the pressure; and until then, there is nothing wrong with "asking the Head judge."  It works!

Enjoy the game

 

...Are we still going on the whole "Disregard any OCG news, this is a TCG game" policy that Tewert tried to put in place before his departure? The OCG has ALREADY released PMD, as part of their Extra Pack, release date SEPTEMBER 15th, 2008. So OCG gamers have ALREADY been playing around with PMD for almost a month, now, and if Konami isn't feeling the pressure to put out rulings for it yet, then I dunno WHAT kind of pressure will.

864951:

The OCG has ALREADY released PMD, as part of their Extra Pack, release date SEPTEMBER 15th, 2008. So OCG gamers have ALREADY been playing around with PMD for almost a month, now.

That is good news.  Go ahead and post a fresh question to Curtis and we will look forward to the answer.  Enjoy the game

now that you are talking of nurse reficule the fallen one and bad reaction to simochi, can you answer me something?

I'm almost 100% sure that it's not true, but, somewhere in the internet I read that if you have bod cards active on the field and you use Gift card, as an example, you inflict 6000 points of damage, 3000 because of the trap and another 3000 because of the monster..

can you answer me?

2362403:

now that you are talking of nurse reficule the fallen one and bad reaction to simochi, can you answer me something?

I'm almost 100% sure that it's not true, but, somewhere in the internet I read that if you have bod cards active on the field and you use Gift card, as an example, you inflict 6000 points of damage, 3000 because of the trap and another 3000 because of the monster..

can you answer me?

No, it wouldn't. It would be like using Gift Card while you have two Reficules or two Simochis active; they don't stack, and only one of them will activate, not both.

I'd say only 3000 damages, similar to two BRtS on the field.  And from the Bad Reaction FAQs...

Multiple copies of this card are not cumulative. If you have 2 copies of "Bad Reaction to Simochi" on the field and the opponent activates "Dian Keto the Cure Master", they only take 1000 points of damage.

Enjoy the game

864951:

No, it wouldn't. It would be like using Gift Card while you have two Reficules or two Simochis active; they don't stack, and only one of them will activate, not both.

More accurately - Both will activate simultaneously as their trigger requirements have been met, however their effects will not stack. If PMD was also involved, the chain would look something like this:

Gift Card > Bad Reaction > Bad Reaction > PMD.

Franklin has confirmed this in a previous thread.

This is similar to activating two Shrink against the same monster....

PMD vs. Nurse Reficule / Bad Reaction on the other hand is similar to Shrink vs. Megamorph.

There are fundamental differences sure, however there is enough similarity that we can use them for sake of argument.

 

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No one's been able to take me seriously... But that will change when I beat you at a children's card game.

edit: delete

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