Upper Deck Entertainment Forums

1468858:

3) The timing of destroyed.  At the start of substep 5, monsters are destroyed by battle.  Its too late for them to be destroyed by effect. 

Sub-step 5: Resolve effects.

• From this point forward, monsters are considered "destroyed". So monsters destroyed by "Dark Ruler Ha Des" cannot activate their effects, destroyed monsters are not eligible for selection by card effects such as "Hane Hane", etc.

Enjoy the game

 

 

this is not a correct statement.  you can always destroy another card that is marked from destruction (except 'six samurais'). (ie.  mst vs. raigeki, etc.) if i divine wrath a flip effect monster during sub step 5 ( that was attacked by a higher atk), it will certainly be destroyed and sent to the graveyard by divine wrath.

1510038:

this is not a correct statement.  you can always destroy another card that is marked from destruction (except 'six samurais'). (ie.  mst vs. raigeki, etc.) if i divine wrath a flip effect monster during sub step 5 ( that was attacked by a higher atk), it will certainly be destroyed and sent to the graveyard by divine wrath.

If you Divine Wrath a Flip Effect during Sub Step 5 (that is considered DBB (Destroyed By Battle)) you are only Negating the effect.  It is already destroyed so you cannot destroy it again.


This is in ruling with Crystal Beasts vs Demise/Judgement Dragon; Heavy Storm vs Rainbow Ruins + 1 Continuous Spell CB etc.

how so in crystal beast vs. demise? if you mean the crystalization, then demise destroys, sends to the graveyard, this is when you decide to crystalize.

heavy vs. rainbow+1 crystalized beast is completely different.  at the time of destruction , when heavy resolves , rainbow ruin is protected by its own effect. it is never destroyed or marked to be destroyed.

neither senario has anything to do with marked for destruction.

ude faq: advanced gameplay:

Returning activated cards

However, once a Normal Spell Card, Quick-Play Spell Card, Normal Trap Card, or Counter-Trap Card has been activated (even though it has not resolved yet), the fact that the card will be destroyed and sent to the Graveyard after the chain resolves has already been decided.

skey:

I'm in agreement with Tsui

842510:

The ruling is regarding Crystal Beast monsters becoming Crystal Beast Continuous Spells when Demise is activated.  It was ruled as that they would stay on the field as spell cards because an single effect cannot destroy a card multiple times (Hence why Kuraz cannot target the same card twice).  Also, cards that are already considered "destroyed" are unable to be "destroyed" by another effect, hence why Vampire Lord doesn't activate again in the graveyard when Divine Wrath is used to negate his summon.

I am not arguing against the Giant Rat ruling for RDA.  That specifies that he activates in Step 4 (Apply Damage) after Step 3 (Calculate Damage).  I'm just asking since the Attacking monster leaves the field, the Damage Step is supposed to stop immediately, and no replay occurs, so does it hit Step 5 for destroying the monster by battle and resolving effects of flipped monsters, and others?

Red Dragon Archfiend
Effect Monster (Dragon / DARK / 8 Stars / ATK 3000 / DEF 2000)

1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner monsters

If this card attacks a Defense Position monster your opponent controls, destroy all Defense Position monsters your opponent controls after Sub-Step 3 and Sub-Step 4. During your End Phase, destroy all other monsters you control that did not declare an attack this turn.

842510:

Damage Calculation is actually Step 3.  Damage Application is Step 4.  Resolve Effects is Step 5.  Send to Graveyard is Step 6.

Since we're in the Apply Damage section of the Damage Step, monsters are yet considered "DBB".  Otherwise, the Giant Rat ruling wouldn't exist.

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1. Sub-step 3: Damage Calculation part 1: Calculate damage.
• Turn player has the priority to respond with Spell Speed 2 here.
• The following effects can be activated, form a chain, and
  resolve now:
• Spell Speed 2 that modifies ATK or DEF stat. (Examples are "Rush Recklessly", "Limiter Removal", Mirror Wall", "Micro Ray").
• Effects that negate the activation of a card can be used in response. (Examples are Counter Trap Cards, and monster effects like "Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8" and "Maryokutai").
• Monster effects that can be activated during the Damage Step and that modify ATK or DEF. (Examples are "Injection Fairy Lily" and "Sanga of
  the Thunder").
• "Disc Fighter's" effect Triggers, then after the Chain Block resolves, go immediately to Sub-step 5.
• When "Spirit Reaper" is targeted by a card and the card resolves, "Spirit Reaper" will not be destroyed by its own effect until Sub-step 5.
2. Sub-step 4: Damage Calculation part 2: Apply damage.
• Inflict damage to players' Life Points.
• Card effects that activate when a monster inflicts Battle
  Damage to a player's Life Points activate, form a chain, and resolve now. (Examples are "Don Zaloog", "Airknight Parshath", and "Robbin' Goblin").
• "Nutrient Z" cab be activated.
  

2240217:

What if RDA Attacks a defense position Stardust? Will Stardust be able to activate it's effect to negate the destruction effect of RDA?

Yes, Stardust can activate its effect, removing itself from the field to counter the Red Dragon's effect.

Enjoy the game

842510:

Now, normally "Red Dragon Archfiend" cannot destroy any Defense-Position monster by battle... 

Player A controls "Red Dragon Archfiend" + "Goyo Guardian"
Player B controls "Stardust Dragon" + "Red Dragon Archfiend" + "Collosal Fighter" all in Defense Position.

Player A's RDA attacks Player B's RDA and when Player A's RDA activates to destroy everything in defense on Opponent's field, Player B chains SD, tributing SD to Negate and Destroy Player A's RDA.

Now, since Damage Calculation still occured, will Player B's RDA still be destroyed?

i believe, since we are at the apply damage step, monsters will still be destroyed by battle.

in regards to win rda activates, who knows.  officially rda activates after damage calculation, before flip effects. following the unofficial guide , this will put rda in between sub step 4 and 5, but remember this is an unofficial guide, and rda is unique ( per its ruling).  i am in agreement with tsui and maybe another substep needs to be added.

in regards to curtis' metagame artical, does curtis' also go by the unofficial battle phase guide?  has anyone actually ask any of these questions to curtis for official clarification and complete break down of exactly win rda will activate? ( does rda form a chain with the likes of don zaloog, etc.?.....and others)

Konami declined to endorse or correct our Battlestep guide, relegating it to the unofficial level.  RDA is a new card, expanding the game past when the guide was last written.  The only thing we need Curtis to clarify is:  Does RDA's effect occur at the same time as Don Zaloog and Robbin Goblin.

If yes, then like LADD, we have another card that can have interesting effects in substep 4.

If no, then maybe we ammend the guide.

Until then, I understand how I believe they meant the card to be played, and Matt has a different interpretation.

Edit:  For clarity, this thread seems to be locked on whether RDA activates at during substep 4 or at the beginning of substep 5.  What I'd like is a scenario where this mattered.

I also believe that each substep has a chain, and if multiple effects are activated in a substep, SEGOC applies.  I have seen nothing to suggest that a card has the power to negate SEGOC.

Enjoy the game