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This question came up during my weekly Battlegrounds.  At what point do end of turn triggers actually go on the chain?  Mostly this has to do with Weldon Barov.  My players wanted to know if, when the trigger resolves and the tokens enter play could the respond to it.  Normally I would just say yes of course, but then I looked up End Phase in the Comp Rules.
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503. End phase

503.1      As an end phase starts, a priority window opens. As that window closes, a wrap-up step starts.

503.2      Wrap-up step

503.2a   There are no priority windows during a wrap-up step, so nothing can be added to the chain. Any effects that trigger during a wrap-up step are added to the chain at the start of the next turn’s ready step (501.1 08D0C9EA79F9BACE118C8200AA004BA90B02000000080000000E0000005F005200650066003100340038003800300033003900300036000000 ). During a wrap-up step, the following things happen in order:

·         If the turn player has more cards in hand than his or her maximum hand size, that player must discard down to that maximum hand size. The default maximum hand size is seven cards.

·         Modifiers that last until end of turn expire.

·         The wrap-up step, end phase, and turn end, and then the next player clockwise starts his or her turn.

The main question come from  Any effects that trigger during a wrap-up step are added to the chain at the start of the next turn’s ready step (501.1 08D0C9EA79F9BACE118C8200AA004BA90B02000000080000000E0000005F005200650066003100340038003800300033003900300036000000 )

So what I needed to know was when specifically do these triggers go on the chain?

Assuming that the only end of turn trigger to happen is Weldon Barov, I believe the sequence of events would be this:

-End of turn triggers go on the chain, turn player's first in an order of their choosing and then the next player to their left and so forth, in this case putting Weldon's trigger on the chain and nothing else

-Opportunity for responses

-Resolve the "topmost" trigger, in this case Weldon Barov, to create 3 tokens

Now the chain is empty, so both players have one final opportunity to add to the chain before passing.  If both players pass in succession on an empty chain, then the End Phase completes and you go to the Wrap Up Step where 503.1 takes over.

Just to clarify, 'End of Turn' trigger effects trigger at 503.1 when the end phase starts, not during the Wrap-up.

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WoW RK2
VS RK2
PM LV2
Specialist LV2 (formerly demo team)
TO LV1

Can someone cite somewhere in the comprehensive rules where this is stated instead of just saying it happens?

1199414:

Can someone cite somewhere in the comprehensive rules where this is stated instead of just saying it happens?

503.1        As an end phase starts, a priority window opens. As that window closes, a wrap-up step starts.

708.1        As a player is about to receive priority, any waiting triggered effects that have been created but have not yet been added to the chain are added to the chain during PPP (410.5).

So when end phase starts after both players have passed priority on an empty chain in the Action Phase.  At end of turn triggers occur.  708.1 causes those waiting triggered effects to be added to the chain as a player is about to receive priority during the priority window that opens during 503.1.  IE. Weldon's 3 peasent tokens being created.  That effect is on the chain and both players must pass for it resolve.  After it resolves you have an empty chain that both plays have the opportunity to add effects to before both passing to close that prority window and move to wrap-up.

Does this answer the question sufficiently?

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William C. Zobac
Lubbock, TX
WoW TCG RK 1
WoW Minis RK 2
PM LV 1

No offence meant to any of our Brother Judges,

Thanks for trying but you haven't answered our question. You can't actually say that the triggered power is waiting, because it's trigger condition has not been met. The trigger condition is the end of the turn... there used to be provision in the CR covering when EOT triggers would trigger. Those provisions have been eliminated in retalliation for certain abusive interactions with... Blessing of Freedom I think.

7.3.1 A triggered power can be identified by the words “when” or “at.” It watches for its trigger event to happen, at which point it triggers. It triggers off every instance of its event, including multiple events happening simultaneously. It can trigger any time, even during intervals when no player has priority. Triggered powers create triggered effects ()

The above is the rule we need to look at first... then 708.1 tells us when it goes to the Chain.

So, with no directive language in 503 pertaining to the triggering of EOT triggers, the Trigger Event actually becomes the ACTUAL really really real EOT and the next PPP takes place during the opponent's turn after ready step.

It occurs to us that this seems counterintuitive in that there is effectively no difference between an EOT trigger and a "beggining of opponent's next turn" trigger... unless our analysis is off.
While we do appreciate all the attempts by our brother Judges to be helpful with this issue, this question is only likely to be correctly fielded by a judge manager... Eric Mock I'm looking at you... or some of the rules team that actually were responsible for the last CR update.

We sincerely hope that this could be cleared up and properly disseminated to the Judges and players prior to Worlds as it seems to be a significant change to the CR and has gone mostly unnoticed as is evidenced by recent posts quoting Rules that do not exist any longer.

Best of intents,

The Detroit Area UDE Judges
Matt Glotfelty (Facilitator)
David Rappaport (responsible for the content of this post)
Matt Weaver (who will gladly be blamed)
Tim Cummings (unaware because we posted on his left side)

Thanks all

Your analysis (no offence meant, of course) is slightly off.

The rule you want/are missing is 703.4, which tells us how we know if a trigger condition has been met:

A triggered power uses the game state immediately before an event to determine whether that
event matches the trigger event it’s watching for. Powers that trigger off a card entering play or
entering a party are an exception to this rule, and use the game state immediately after that event.

Triggered powers can trigger when no player has priority. As such, end of turn triggers (much like start of turn triggers) trigger at a point during the game where no players have priority: the very beginning of the end step. We know this because 703.4 tells us that we check the game state immediately before the event to determine when the trigger condition is met, and that would be a game state where both players have passed priority on an empty chain in the action phase. Following, we know that the trigger condition is met as soon as the end phase begins because the game state before it is different. No player has priority here, so the trigger will go on the chain as the next priority window opens, which is the priority window that opens in the end step.

Edit: I thought I should address your Blessing of Freedom confusion too. It's possible to play Blessing of Freedom during the end phase (such as in response to an end of turn trigger or something else your opponent plays at end of turn) and have that Blessing of Freedom remain attached to that ally until the next end of turn (i.e. through another full turn, not just until the wrap-up step). To the best of my knowledge, this has always been the case and continues to be true.

Ok, now here is the deal.  After review of the comp rules by means of reading it step by step, we found this.
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500.2      As a turn, phase, or step starts, any powers or modifiers that trigger at the start of that turn, phase, or step trigger. Triggered effects are added to the chain during PPP (410.5 08D0C9EA79F9BACE118C8200AA004BA90B02000000080000000E0000005F005200650066003100340037003800320032003600380031000000 ). Powers or modifiers that trigger at the end of a turn trigger at the start of that turn’s end phase.

The main issue we had with this was the fact that we were pretty sure that the power triggered at the start of end of turn, but we could find nothing to specify this in the comp rules.  It just seems like the small portion of text should really be stated here and in 503.
Also just for clarification 703.4 has absolutely nothing to do with end of turn triggers, just read the example in the stated text if it is unclear.

(Edit: I tried to quote your post, but it came out a bunch of code, so I took it out)

Actually, 703.4 applies to ALL triggers. If it didn't I wouldn't have cited it as evidence. Examples are just that, examples, not every instance that the rule applies to. If it only applied to a certain kind of trigger, that would be specified in the rule. (To clarify: 703.4 lets us know that end of turn has started, which in turn lets us know that end of turn triggers trigger.)

I don't mean this as a personal attack, and I apologize if it comes across as one (I'm just trying to figure out why you're making this mistake), but I think you tried to read too much into the rules--such as rationalizing by reading the examples that a rule doesn't apply to this situation--and as a result are finding loopholes/inconsistencies that don't exist. If end of turn triggers were an exception to 703.4, there would be a rule saying they're an exception. As no such rule exists, we have to apply 703.4 to ALL triggers, including end-of-turn ones.

At least you found a section in the CR that points you in the right direction:)

I think his whole point is that the CR specifically states when Start of Turn triggers are triggered and it USED to state when End of Turn triggers are triggered and he believed that phrase has been removed.

However, it has not changed at least as far back as 2007 (I checked my old copies).

I think what is happening is that he just didn't finish reading 500.2 that he quoted.

500.2 As a turn, phase, or step starts, any powers or modifiers that trigger at the start of that turn, phase, or step trigger. Triggered effects are added to the chain during PPP (410.5). Powers or modifiers that trigger at the end of a turn trigger at the start of that turn’s end phase.

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WoW RK2
VS RK2
PM LV2
Specialist LV2 (formerly demo team)
TO LV1

I understood that:) The only reason I brought up the idea that he was reading too much into the rules to look for things that do/don't apply is that I've caught myself doing that on occasion and it seems to be the source of most of the rules I've mixed up, specifically questioning whether or not a rule applies to something and on occasion not reading far enough down. From the OP's responses to the CR quotes presented in this thread, it seemed like he was trying to defend his "discovery" about end of turn triggers (especially the comments that Erik needed to address this issue). Coming from this POV (having confused or questioned things for this reason), I was trying to both clarify their confusion about the specific rule and help avoid similar confusion in the future.

Like I said, I didn't mean my post to be any sort of personal attack, and I apologize if it was perceived as such; I was just trying to help fellow judges understand not only that they made a mistake, but why. To be honest, we need more people familiar enough with the rules to spot inconsistencies or things that could potentially be wrong, so reading them with a critical eye is never a bad thing. It's also equally important, however, to read and apply the rules at face value and not read too much into things, such as the specific examples chosen. I don't mean to harp on this point ( it probably seems like I'm pointing to the confusion over 703.4 specifically), but it's honestly the only example that I can come up with right now. Hopefully, this bit of experience (this thread and my rambling about how often I want things to work differently from the ways they do work) helps you guys out in the future, and not just with this specific rule.

Just to repeat, because I think it's the most important thing in my too long post: To be honest, we need more people familiar enough with the rules to spot inconsistencies or things that could potentially be wrong, so reading them with a critical eye is never a bad thing.